I have seen an instructor in a father son team doing an exhibition play acting fight on stage where the kid hit the wrong mark and round house kicked his dad in the back and caused several broken bones so......Ill take the op on good faith and believe him.Sides I REALLY REALLY want to be able to break a bone with a kick so far to old and fat.

I have seen an instructor in a father son team doing an exhibition play acting fight on stage where the kid hit the wrong mark and round house kicked his dad in the back and caused several broken bones so......Ill take the op on good faith and believe him.Sides I REALLY REALLY want to be able to break a bone with a kick so far to old and fat.


I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I have seen an instructor in a father son team doing an exhibition play acting fight on stage where the kid hit the wrong mark and round house kicked his dad in the back and caused several broken bones so......Ill take the op on good faith and believe him.Sides I REALLY REALLY want to be able to break a bone with a kick so far to old and fat.Go ahead no one is stopping you. I've seen injuries, in Demos, where no one is blocking or expecting **** to go south. It doesn't validate anything working in real time.

A demo, with no threat of Life or Death, is not the same as a street Fight.

OK, my troll senses are firing here

Pretty sure everyone else covered this already, but... uh huh.


I have done the necessary in daring (gulp) to post on Bullshido.

No, what's necessary is for you to verify that the story you're relating is substantially true. Newspaper article, police report, CCTV footage, something.

Breaking a collarbone with an "upper rising elbow?" Doesn't the use of both "upper" and "rising" make that redundant?

Anyway, I have trouble seeing how such a technique could break a person's collarbone... assuming that this is a 6-o'clock-to-12-o'clock (uppercut-like) strike where the point of contact is the tip of the elbow, it seems to me that it would just graze/cut the upper pectoral region. However, even this only seems probable if the guy being struck is shirtless and not wearing a t-shirt/sweater/coat/what-have-you, in which case it wouldn't do much damage at all.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I like pie.

God, I love this website. When I saw this story, I was immediately skeptical, but I said to myself "It's on the front page, so surely...". I'm glad that isn't the case :)

Perhaps there was excessive farce.

description of the event sounds to clean cut from "Raymonds" point of view. If there was more of a struggle between the group and Raymond ie they grabbed him and he managed to get out a kick or a "upper rising elbow" which were fortunate enough to have connected it would sound more plausible. Perhaps it has just been simplified too much or taken too much from one persons point of view. Though it does read like the classic martial arts mugging story.

In regard to UK law the police would have turned up on scene received two or three different accounts of the events, victim, offender, witness. Due to discrepency between them they would have arrested all people actually involved, probably ON SUSPICION of section 3 of public order act AFFRAY or ON SUSPICION of assualt or in the case of the offenders carrying a bladed article.

REMEMBER an ARREST DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN A PERSON IS GUILTY it is simply a method which ensures prompt investigation of the crime and for the police to gather as much evidence as possible although there must obviously be enoung grounds for the police officer to suspect you of the offence. YOU CAN BE DEARRESTED IN SOME CASES

UK LAW DOES NOT expect you to curl up in a ball BUT it does want you to use only as much force as is necessary (ie what a reasonable man would deem reasonable). EG A drunk swings for you aggressively, you defend yourself by hitting him before his fist connects. AT this point most would argue you have been reasonable in your use of force. The drunk falls to the ground and you then start to kick him in the ribs THIS is when you have potentially crossed the line as you could run away. THE common legal defence would be that you thought he was going to get up and threaten you again.

In this case if "Raymond" was able to deliver these blows so easily, knew what the results of such blows would be and intended those results and could have done something differently then he might well have been guilty of using excessive force. Like anything else it comes down to what you can PROVE in court.

Good example of this in UK recently
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/14/jail-brothers-burglar-cricket-bat

though I believe their sentences have since been reduced/quashed?

I live in london and have heard nothing about this at all. This kind of incedent would have received at least some attention especially with most of the national papers obsessing over "broken britain" these days that said the article does have some good points.

Fucking fairy tail bullshit.

Provide evidence please.

Good example of this in UK recently
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/14/jail-brothers-burglar-cricket-bat

though I believe their sentences have since been reduced/quashed?Suspended.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/7044895/Freed-businessman-Munir-Hussain-calls-for-law-to-be-changed-to-protect-householders.html

Just posted this poser over there.
Three muggers were very seriously injured on a public street of London, in broad daylight. There was at least one eyewitness, and the police and ambulance services were all heavily involved.

Where are the newspaper articles? The television news story? A statement from the police?

Journalists are routinely all over stuff much more mundane than this… you’d expect at least a minor clipping from a local paper, if not full blown national coverage (broken Britain is so in vogue). So where is the EVIDENCE?

I’m sorry, until corroboration is offered, this is just pie in the sky at best. At worst it’s a masturbatory fantasy.Lets see how long until it's deleted...

:crybaby2:http://www.bullshido.net/images/news/droogs.jpg

YouTube- Prince Buster - Judge Dread (Judge Four Hundred Years) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKgh_tpDoTc)
:crybaby2: :icon_cry: :cry:

I am coming late to the dance; but in my never to be humble opinion....

1. The elbow break is possible, even probable.

2. The collarbone break is possible, but unlikely.

3. The sidekick breaking the shin bone is VERY unlikely and perhaps impossible.

Now, that said, there is merit to the discussion. Things like "when you disarm him, to the law the fight is over, you can't kill him with his own knife," are important issues because the law does see it that way. Of course the line is "I took it away from him, he tried to take it away from me and I knew if he did he would kill me with it," are important to remember.

But, my best suggestion. After such an event, is to say you are having chest pains, tell them you need to go to the hospital, AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT from then on. Just hold your chest and wince a lot.

Once there, they will notify your ICE (in case of emergency) from your cell phone and you should tell them to call a lawyer. Do not talk about the event until you have calmed down and you have had legal advise.

They will only notify who you ask them to, they do not notify anyone automatically. My advice is the same STFU till you get a lawyer and don't use the duty stammering fool from the police station's list. If in doubt ask them who the local Police Federation lawyer is, they ussualy know who is a muppet and who can do the job.

that said the article does have some good points.Yes, because it is a TMA moral story. All of these "stories" have good points. That's not the issue many of us here have, it is the BS associated with the story.

I hadoukened a little girl just for looking at me funny, but I don't feel guilty at all. So, the story must be bullshit. But don't assume Basho is a sucker! It's much more likely that he simply thought a ninjering tale on a prominant ninjering website would be good publicity for...

Wait, what did you have that black belt in? Do you do a lot of full range, hard contact sparring?

Y'know, I don't think the author of this article gave any info regarding which style the martial arts instructor in his story practiced. Basho provided evidence of his own ranking in TKD, but no info regarding his subject's organization membership/ranking/certification/what-have-you.

Perhaps to, er, protect the man's identity...?