I think the bug here is that people don't want to see fights stopped for 'saftey' rather than someone having done serious damage.

Would a fair compromise be that for a stoppage due to non-serious injury, like the leaky cut that obscures vision but doesn't actually impede the fighter otherwise, Use the score cards? This could also be used in situation like the knee injury in the Silva Côté (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_C%C3%B4t%C3%A9_%28fighter%29) fight where the injury is not related to the fight directly. (you can argue on a specific one, but it's only an example)

That opens the whole judging system can of worms, but would seem a middle ground & avoid No Contests but keep fighters safe when continuing is not possible

nah, i have to disagree. really, it's not that hard to remember no kicks to the head of a downed opponent,

Have you fought professionally? I can't see any tags on articles, but I'd really rather some takes on this by people who have been in the situation, because people clearly have forgotten. Hell, Marquardt started to go for a knee - yeah, he caught himself, but if it weren't that hard to remember then he wouldn't have started.



and i think removing stuff like soccer kicks and knees to the head when someone sprawls on you adds some safety.

Based on what? I haven't seen anything convincing that not allowing soccer kicks makes things safer. In fact, in general I find the more rules you throw in, the less safe it gets. Go back to old school vale tudo rules, where everything is allowed and you need to take care of yourself, if you're hurt you tap. You don't have stuff where someone gets caught by an illegal blow and tries to alert the ref while they take more of a beating rather than just protecting themselves or tapping out. Josh Barnett had it right. Mirko poked him in the eye in their third fight, he just tapped, and said that Mirko's too dangerous to be fighting against when he can't see. Any time you have fighters doing things that would be a bad idea if everything were allowed, you start making things more dangerous.

**** it, let's just go back to UFC1 rules.

UFC 3. UFC 1 rules were kind of odd. UFC 2 rules didn't allow ref stoppages. UFC 3 is about as good as it gets.

What constitutes "out of control bleeding?" As long as it's not obscuring vision, I don't think that anyone will be at a dangerous level of bloodloss in sports competition. Does someone have evidence contrary to this?

No, you're right. There have been people who have been absolutely gushing blood and painted the canvas but if it wasn't obscuring vision and pouring into the eyes it didn't matter.

What I find somewhat amusing is that the picture below actually fits the general criteria being advocated (though obviously due to a kick and not an elbow). Blood wasn't really gushing into the eyes and Diego would have continued if allowed. Clearly this was done to protect BJ and had nothing to do with fighter safety.

http://nysuperblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/diego-sanchez-bloody-mess-bj-penn2.jpg

Fights aren't stopped due to a cut simply because of bleeding, but also because of concerns about how serious the cut could be. Randy's slit eyelid had very little bleeding, and he could have probably kept fighting, but it was a liability. I'm not sure what the criteria they go by is exactly, but I've not seen a cut that was almost skull deep that hasn't been stopped, so I'd assume that the really deep ones get stopped more because of how out of hand they could get.

Protect BJ is bullshit. There's no way Diego was doing anything, it could have been a 25 round fight and Diego would have still had nothing. He couldn't land punches on BJ and he couldn't take him down, BJ could have just relied on passive defense not using any energy, regardless of Diego's intensity and endless gas tank.

Everyone knows that BJ always gasses in the later rounds, Diego was just about to make his move (i.e. a single leg).
BJ keeping his belt off a bull **** cut is absurd.

Everyone knows that BJ always gasses in the later rounds, Diego was just about to make his move (i.e. a single leg).
BJ keeping his belt off a bull **** cut is absurd.

4.5/10

4.5/10

Well I wasn't really trying, he just wholly missed the entire point.

Everyone knows that BJ always gasses in the later rounds, Diego was just about to make his move (i.e. a single leg).
BJ keeping his belt off a bull **** cut is absurd.

When has he gassed? He didn't gas in round 4 against Kenny. GSP beat him up, that's different from gassing. Hughes put enough pressure on him from the top so he separated his ribs, that's again different from gassing. He never gassed against Rodrigo or Renzo when he was fat. Certainly his physical conditioning overall against Hughes was insufficient, but this whole BJ gasses thing is a myth, and even if it were true, BJ wasn't expending energy - his head movement is too good for Diego to hit him, and his balance and flexibility is too good for Diego to ever take him down with a single leg. The notion that had the fight gone the distance it would have been anything other than 50-45 or 50-44 for BJ is completely absurd. Hell, even if Diego had gotten BJ down by some miracle (most likely BJ pulling guard out of boredom), his ground skills aren't on the level to pass his guard.

We need sarcasm text because some people get butt hurt real fucking quick.

http://glennmcanally.com/sarcastic/

^There's a place where you can download a font called "arial sarcastic."

It's not that BJ actually gasses, it's that Joe Rogan still says "BJ's conditioning is always a consideration....when he's in shape he's untouchable, but we'll see in the later rounds". And Goldberg says "you're right Joe. teep."

http://glennmcanally.com/sarcastic/

^There's a place where you can download a font called "arial sarcastic."

It's not that BJ actually gasses, it's that Joe Rogan still says "BJ's conditioning is always a consideration....when he's in shape he's untouchable, but we'll see in the later rounds". And Goldberg says "you're right Joe. teep."

only if we can get Mandalorian BJJ is T3h D34dly
you have to admit, that's a cool looking font(despite being unreadable)
http://www.erikstormtrooper.com/mandalorian.htm

Those Mandalorians are a sarcastic lot.

see as a major proponent of elbow use, i am drastically opposed to that, however, i understand completely where you are coming from and it makes sense.

but also they arent' going to "replace" something that is already restricted when they add a rule like that. it just sucks but it is what it is. if someone has that sort of pointy elbow and ability to use it its also natural.

maybe if we required taped elbows somehow or padded, but i'm not certain how that wouldn't cause even more problems than i would be trying to avoid further nerfing the rules.

and of corse i don't want to see fighters hurt- and understand that thier safety is paramount, but elbows are a powerfull weapon in a persons arsenal and should remain (for those who use them).

i would hate to change the face of mma competitions yet again when other competitions (which may or may not be style specific) freely use elbows- ground or no.

Have you fought professionally? I can't see any tags on articles, but I'd really rather some takes on this by people who have been in the situation, because people clearly have forgotten. Hell, Marquardt started to go for a knee - yeah, he caught himself, but if it weren't that hard to remember then he wouldn't have started.

quick rundown of my experience in and around martial arts:

BJJ purple belt, TKD black belt. active competitor in various submission grappling tournaments which all have different rules, used to compete in TKD many years ago but not any more.

currently train MMA under two UFC veterans, personally know many fighters and a few fight promoters. been present at meetings before MMA events where fighters had rules explained to them in detail, seen the discussion and arguments that arise from it.

i've assisted a number of fighters in training for fights under various rules, from amateur to pro. that mostly means just sparring with them.

in my opinion, it's much easier to tell fighters that no elbows are allowed rather than what angle or part of the elbow they're allowed to use.

in general, if you've had a decent amount of time to prepare, you should know the rules off by heart. you should spar under those rules to get used to it.


Based on what? I haven't seen anything convincing that not allowing soccer kicks makes things safer.

it's just an assumption, i have no data to back it up. i've been an MMA fan for about a decade now, i've watched a hell of a lot of video. it just appears to me that no soccer kicks, no knees to the head of someone you've sprawled on, etc is safer.


In fact, in general I find the more rules you throw in, the less safe it gets.

i don't really agree with that. i think certain restrictions can indeed make things less safe, but it totally depends on the rules themselves.

Was it cool when Mark Coleman "won" his fight over Shogun because Shogun squrimed out of a takedown attempt and hurt himself?

YES. Shogun improperly defended against a dangerous technique and was injured. That was a legit TKO.