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muudib
1/02/2010 3:17pm,
aikido has it true points and also false ones. training is a problem many instructors don't want to bring real scenarios into the the mat. i think it has to do with their training .also i think for aikido to be used practically it depends on scenarios just like all arts .Boxing against a trained grappler might have no chance. Aikido is a grappling art lats of the locks can be found in any of the other jujutsu arts but the aikido schools have become more sanctuaries to non realistic application and more of and artist paradise were they can interpret the form of aikido . Also original aikidoka were skilled in other forms such as judo.

Many new students come in thinking aikido is a complete art but it is not. because of this factor usually none have a background in a core art such as judo or other grappling arts. Aikido is the icing in the cake for judoka it teaches them the finer points but not the meat and potatoes of a true rumble their is aikidoka that are able to use some of their skill but that would be dan level practitioners ,

if you look at such aikido master as Saotome he has a judo background
and many of his high ranking students osensei him self had studied judo.
also
i think combining both or at least having a understanding of bjj and judo would let you know if aikido moves could work everyday application also aikido is not self defense. its a classical martial arts such as kung fu all have limitation in real life application. Such does judo.

Vorpal
1/02/2010 5:06pm,
Aikido for self defense is a waste of training time. Low percentage techniques practiced in a compliant manner against unrealistic attacks (holy crap, this guy is running full speed at me and is about to grab my wrist!).

alex
1/02/2010 5:16pm,
so what youre saying is aikido wont teach you self defense? id agree with that.

muudib
1/02/2010 6:17pm,
teaches traditional art
krav maga is self defense

muudib
1/02/2010 6:22pm,
aikido is not a waste just as long you now limitations
aikido tech nicks must be applied by using strikes

1point2
1/02/2010 6:25pm,
teaches traditional art
krav maga is self defense

Please use complete sentences.

What is your experience in the arts you've talked about: aikido, judo, BJJ, krav maga, and kung fu? Please specify the style(s) of kung fu.

Your point that aikido used to be a "gravy" art that experienced judoka practiced is well taken. Beyond that I have a hard time figuring out what you're saying.

Vorpal
1/02/2010 7:30pm,
aikido is not a waste just as long you now limitations
aikido tech nicks must be applied by using strikes

Listen, if you are a tough guy and manage to find some good aikido you may actually learn a few useful things. However, if you applied the same time and energy to another art (Judo, MT, BJJ, Boxing, Sambo, KK Karate, MMA,) you will be much more further of the game. Aikido for self defense is a waste of time. And money.

Tex
1/02/2010 7:34pm,
It's the limitations that make it a waste for so many people.

Krav Maga is self defense?

I'm puzzled by that statement.

What qualifies it as self defense over Aikido, or over anything else that you mentioned really?

Mtripp
1/02/2010 9:00pm,
Sigh...

Again. If you really want to learn self-defense; take one of those model mugging type courses for real time basic training in the core concepts.

Then pick a martial sport (boxing, wrestling, Judo, BJJ/GJJ, wrestling, kickboxing, mma etc) for your growth and mastery of the skill set.

Learning was personal protection devises are legal in your state, and mastering them is also a very good idea. Meaning if your state is shall issue, learn how to use a hand gun and get a licence to carry it. You STILL do the first two things as well.

THAT is the real path to serious self-defense skills. All else is flummery.

OwlMatt
1/09/2010 9:46am,
Aikido can be used for self-defense, as can any contact martial art. Police departments all over the world use aikido for the restraining and subduing of violent suspects. In Japan, the home of jujutsu, karate, and judo, both the riot police and the secret service are trained in aikido.

The reasons aikido gets such a bad rap as an art for self-defense are that (a) aikidoists don't get to practice at realistic speeds or against realistic resistance until they are relatively advanced compared to practitioners of other martial arts, and (b) many people choose to practice aikido as more of a meditative dance than a martial art.

I have a problem with the people mentioned in B, because I think they miss out on the whole point of martial arts training and give a lot of people the wrong idea about aikido.

Vorpal
1/09/2010 10:44am,
Which MA a police agency uses tends to have more to do with liability and public perception than effectiveness. Police administrators cream in their pants over the image of their officers using arm bendy compliance moves. The fact that a few leg kicks and a good judo throw would be much more effective doesn't factor into the equation.

Whathappened
1/09/2010 10:59am,
Which MA a police agency uses tends to have more to do with liability and public perception than effectiveness. Police administrators cream in their pants over the image of their officers using arm bendy compliance moves.

Flashy presentation > practical "boring" presentation
Sad fact of life.

Effectiveness:efficiency ratios go out the window once administrators of any business see them flashy moves.

BSONE
1/09/2010 5:15pm,
As an aikido teacher, I would say that self defense is mostly a byproduct of aikido, not really the goal, if you know what I mean. There are many arts to study if your primary goal is self defense, and very few aikido dojo that practice with the primary goal being defense. Therefore I would think it difficult to find any quality instuction in that in aikido. Not saying it couldnt be done, just unlikley.

Toughsensei
1/10/2010 1:03am,
I think that learning Aikido is similar to learning some of the sword arts. The practitioner is learning art for the sake of ART, and to them, it doesn't really matter if what they are learning is practical for self-defense or not. Like BSONE stated; it is sometimes a by-product, rather than the actual goal. For me, Karate is the opposite (initially) students come to the dojo to learn self-defense, and end up (hopefully, and eventually) learning an art!

Red Elvis
1/10/2010 2:40am,
Hmmm... It appears that while I have been on an extended Bullshido sabbatical Mr. Tripp has come aboard. Even more interesting is that in this case I agree 95% with his post re: 'real self defense' even though back in the day (circa 1994-1996) we used to have heated & spirited debates on the old AOL martial art message boards that pre-dated this site. Ahhh, the good 'ol days before Bullshido!

Anyway, to add just a couple additional items that he probably didn't feel like typing would be to also;

* Learn as best you can to understand the criminal mind
* Understand & utilize situational awareness
* Change of lifestyle needed to really practice effective SD
* Learn & understand your local laws pertaining to SD
* Understanding terrain & E&E
* Learn and practice 'verbal judo' & de-escalation as best as possible
* Stay fit and healthy (in case you gots' to run!)
* Get to know yourself and how far you are willing to go given certain situations

etc. and so forth...

Some of that is what you may find in a 'mugging type course' but I have never seen all the goods on real SD in any one place be it from LEO, military, martial art, sport, seminar, book, DVD, etc.

The key is looking to all those and more and using them in concert. Real SD is very complicated and has many facets that most people and MA's simply overlook.
:ninjafigh

Adam_F
1/10/2010 4:14am,
I've just finished reading "Angry White Pyjamas" by Robert Twigger, a biography about an English teacher who does the 1 year riot police Aikido course in Japan in the 90's.

The impression I got from it was that the Aikido traning for the cops was more about instiling (fairly right wing) traditional values than about practical self defence, he certainly mentions several times that the police have kevlar armour and machine guns to back up their Aikido prowess!