Many of the karate styles hit with the first two knuckles, other styles use the last three knuckles (index, ring and pinky). What's been your experience with each?

When doing push-ups on my fists, I find it more comfortable using the three (IRP).

Personally, it's the index, and middle knucks for me.

Those are the most prominent, best supported, and strongest of the knuckles IMO.

The ring and pinky seem to crumple under far less force, and injure much easier. When I am conditioning my hands, those two are always playing catch up to the first two.

But that's just me...

Well, I think it goes index, middle, ring, and pinky. So the last three would be middle, ring, and pinky.

Ooops

Thumb
Knuckle 1 - Index
Knuckle 2 - Middle
Knuckle 3 - Ring
Knuckle 4 - Pinky

Karate: 1 & 2
Some others: 2,3 & 4

Thanks for the correction.
Dex 2

Unless you're used to knuckle pushups you'd naturally feel better on your middle, ring and pinky knuckles, because there's more knuckles to spread your weight across. If you're actually conditioned you shouldn't have much of a problem doing them on the correct knuckles (the index [or 'pointer'] and middle).

A "boxer's fracture" is a fracture of the ring-finger knuckle, is it not? The bottom two are not designed to take the kind of force that the top two can. That's why anyone who wants to make money punching uses the index and middle knuckles.

If you find the last 3 fingers comfortable for your pushups you may want to consider changing your pushup position of your fists.

The best way to get used to a new position is to practice the form against the wall until your ligaments and joints are used to the pressure from the new position before progressing to the floor.

I used to get alot of wrist injuries in Karate until I learned the above tip from Nam Wah Pai instructor.

They have numerous striking places and the wall is always where they start when using a another part of their fist.

Many of the karate styles hit with the first two knuckles, other styles use the last three knuckles (index, ring and pinky). What's been your experience with each?

When doing push-ups on my fists, I find it more comfortable using the three (IRP).

when doing pushups in class we switch it up, I use both index/middle for some and the other three as well. To me the index/middle knuckle pushups feel better.

I think this has question already been discussed numerous time here. As I already mentioned in an earlier thread which I dont have time to look up.. as a student in x-ray school (now soon to graduate) one of the most common fractures of all is a boxers fracture to the ring &/or pinky knuckle. Never have seen a boxers fracture to the index or middle as of yet and haven't heard one mentioned from the experienced x-ray "vets". What does all this limited experience mean to me? I think it is more natural to hit with all knuckles, but without proper form the last two (ring/pinky) are far more vunerable than the index/middle knuckles, which is why its not common for a drunken punch fest to end in a broken index/middle, and it is very common for a drunken punch fest to end in a broken ring/pinky knuckle fracture= fracture of the 4th/5th metacarpal bones.

In conclusion, crazys/pissed teenagers/ & drunks all break the ring/pinky knuckles not the index/ring knuckles. So I use the index/middle because they are not the ones commonly broken in punching related injurys.

remember. Your fingers have no muscles, so your push ups are from your forearms up. if you have strong forearms etc.., then its easy to do push ups on any knuckle.

The problem with strikes with your knuckles is that they are not all equal in mass.. the bones in your index and middle are larger, while the bones in your ring and pinky are smaller.. This is why it's generally better to condition the ring and pinky, or stick to striking with your index and middle.

I learned the hard way with this.. hit a guy square with the ring and pinky.. My left pinky knuckle is flattened now. The good thing is that I still have mobility in the finger due to the fact that I only need mere forearm strength to retain movement.

My opinion.. learn to strike effectively, for now, with your first two.. while conditioning the last two.

If you know how to do a proper knife hand, then your thumb is braced against the integrity of the rest of your hand.

There are three nerves that run to your hand.. the median, ulnar, and radial.. They all have about equal function.. so.. regardless.. you're gonna have to condition your hands and strengthen them to minimize pain.

remember. Your fingers have no muscles, so your push ups are from your forearms up. if you have strong forearms etc.., then its easy to do push ups on any knuckle.

The problem with strikes with your knuckles is that they are not all equal in mass.. the bones in your index and middle are larger, while the bones in your ring and pinky are smaller.. This is why it's generally better to condition the ring and pinky, or stick to striking with your index and middle.

I learned the hard way with this.. hit a guy square with the ring and pinky.. My left pinky knuckle is flattened now. The good thing is that I still have mobility in the finger due to the fact that I only need mere forearm strength to retain movement.

My opinion.. learn to strike effectively, for now, with your first two.. while conditioning the last two.

If you know how to do a proper knife hand, then your thumb is braced against the integrity of the rest of your hand.

There are three nerves that run to your hand.. the median, ulnar, and radial.. They all have about equal function.. so.. regardless.. you're gonna have to condition your hands and strengthen them to minimize pain.

EDIT:: and that means strengthening your forearm up, and building the skink around your knuckles.. you get a good example of this when you look at Kimbo Slice's knuckles..

A "boxer's fracture" is a fracture of the ring-finger knuckle, is it not?

No. A boxer's fracture is the 5th metacarpal (pinky)

the chun strikes with the last three knuckles. they are not exactly known for their power. use the first two. now.

EDIT: re-read jspeedy's post.. he is correct and cares enough to prove it

the chun strikes with the last three knuckles. they are not exactly known for their power. use the first two. now.


Read Philip Starr's book Martial Mechanics: Maximum Results with Minimum Effort in the Practice of the Martial Arts (http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Mechanics-Maximum-Results-Practice/dp/1583942114/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259246187&sr=1-1)

It has very good breakdown on why certain strikes work the way they do and thus a reader with some hand-to-hand experience will understand (at least I did) which punches are best suited for which set of knuckles (1st two or last three).

I could go into details if so desired (my local library has it)

I've got my black belt in Kyokushin and everything we do here (in Japan) is bare knuckle.
You know how we strike with the first two knucles being slightly extended and all that. I also am a Wing Chun user and with that I see a very good principle of using short distance for rapid punching. Once again, this is done bare knuckle and full contact, but with our last three knuckles.
The MMA guys will argue up and down that they are right and traditionalist are wrong.
But I don't need to argue with them, I know what works for me and I'm not insecure about myself and what I do to argue that I'm always right.
I say find what works for you. Experiement. That's what training is for. The only real way to learn is to do it yourself.

^ sort of agree. There's this concept of optimum striking angles that the book covers.

e.g. Assuming no changes in body structure/stance, the sunfist (aka WC punch) delivers effective striking between 90° to 45°, whereas, the traditional straight punch is effective from 90° to 135°.

Granted there's way around it by changing body structure/stance, but I think its comparing apples to oranges.

I also am a Wing Chun user and with that I see a very good principle of using short distance for rapid punching. Once again, this is done bare knuckle and full contact, but with our last three knuckles.

Right, i'm not going to go off on a Chun tangent.. I'm not even going to complain that you use the last three knuckles..

but in 'close range' chain punching is the absolute least effective technique available. seriously. I could fart at that range and do more damage.

Right, i'm not going to go off on a Chun tangent.. I'm not even going to complain that you use the last three knuckles..

but in 'close range' chain punching is the absolute least effective technique available. seriously. I could fart at that range and do more damage.

I'm sure you could with such a claim.
It's worked for me in a real fight and that's all that matters to me. It's helped me in my Kyokushin kumite as well. I use it because it's good for me.
It may not be good for MMA, but that is a whole other ballgame.
It's highly effective against someone who isn't a martial artist and just wants to pick a fight with the wrong martial artist.
It also matters where your target on the body is being hit. Are you hitting him in the shoulder or are you hitting him on the chin? Is it hitting his cheek or hitting him in the solar plexus?
For the time it takes for one haymaker to reach the target you could have struck the person several times with chain punching.
I think it makes a good deal of sense.
The problem isn't in the technique. The problem is within yourself. That's my personal belief.

Whathappened,

Thank you for the reference.

My sport 'combative' experience was in free-style wrestling and judo, when I was a teen. At that time and place, grappling was not as sophisticated as today. My 'street' experience consisted mostly of punching, fisticuffs. I've no memory of what knuckles I used, but never injured a hand hitting a person. The only knuckle injury came after I lost my temper and hit a metal elevator cab wall. A few minutes after I walked away, noticed the first right knuckle was swollen three times normal size.

Anyway, I keep coming across styles pushing different methods and wanted to learn from others' experience.

Thanks again.