http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design

Awww thanks for the Argument from poor design link Socratic, has put a big smile on my face.

:new_infin

People who think anatomy is very well designed really haven't looked very closely at anatomy. People have all kinds of problems with their eyes all the goddamn time. Go for a walk and count all the people with glasses. These people have imperfect eyes. It would be expected there would be some people with imperfect eyes if people weren't simply made from some divine cookie cutter, wouldn't it?

People who think anatomy is very well designed really haven't looked very closely at anatomy. People have all kinds of problems with their eyes all the goddamn time. Go for a walk and count all the people with glasses. These people have imperfect eyes. It would be expected there would be some people with imperfect eyes if people weren't simply made from some divine cookie cutter, wouldn't it?

I think my eye sight went downhill drastically once I started using computers day in day out.

As I see it ID is a necessary(?) philosophical device to account for the privileged position of humanity in christianity. I don't think to argue for ID you have to argue that everything is designed, only that a bare minimum of guidance required to produce humanity occured. The strength(!) of the theory is its vagueness; you don't even need to provide a specific thing that could not have evolved without design, you can just say that god guided the chaos of evolution sufficiently to make mankind.

People who think anatomy is very well designed really haven't looked very closely at anatomy. People have all kinds of problems with their eyes all the goddamn time. Go for a walk and count all the people with glasses. These people have imperfect eyes. It would be expected there would be some people with imperfect eyes if people weren't simply made from some divine cookie cutter, wouldn't it?Every human has imperfect eyesight. The humans wearing glasses have unacceptable eyesight.

The probabilistic flaw in his argument is as follows:

P(some beardy twat giving a talk on ID in a tent somewhere in Hicksville USA has found a fatal flaw in evolutionary biology) = 0

I was just reading CNN and apparently Kirk Cameron and his Creationism fundamentalist friends are circulating a free appended version of "On The Origin of Species" at various Colleges and Universities. The appended version includes scrutinies of possible Nazi Connections to Darwinism, whether Darwin was a racist, a sexist, and on the merits of creationism in lieu of Darwin's more Revolutionary concepts. blah blah blah..

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/11/20/costello.cameron.evolution.cnn

http://www.livingwaters.com/

I was just reading CNN and apparently Kirk Cameron and his Creationism fundamentalist friends are circulating a free appended version of "On The Origin of Species" at various Colleges and Universities.Correct. The introduction was rejected by biologists.

The appended version includes scrutinies of possible Nazi Connections to Darwinism, whether Darwin was a racist, a sexist, and on the merits of creationism in lieu of Darwin's more Revolutionary concepts. Oh the famous argementum ad hiterum...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
"Hitler liked/was it, so if you like/are it, you're a Nazi". AKA the most offensive way to admit defeat in a debate.

A white man was racist or sexist in the 1800's? Naw... that can't be!

I started reading the introduction in the free version. I got about a page into it and felt nauseous.

That little news video is all you need to know about how serious this issue is. Two newscasters for America's NON-conservative news media called it "debunking" and referred to On the Origin of Species as "Darwin's manifesto." You know, just for laughs. Or more likely, because someone in that organization really believes those things.

I think my eye sight went downhill drastically once I started using computers day in day out.
Mine didn't.


Every human has imperfect eyesight. The humans wearing glasses have unacceptable eyesight.
Ergo argument from poor design, therefore I am correct. Cheers.

Mine didn't.

Mine definitly has. I heard somewhere that printing machines forced glass technology (optics) onwards because not everybody could see the type clearly. Wish I had a reference for that :-(

The following link is an essay from Professor Denis O. Lamoureux about Darwin and intelligent design. He pretty much makes it clear that Darwin didnt support William Paley's perfect creation line, which is what alot of fundee Christains are busy rehashing, but did appear to have issues with the implications of his own theorising..

http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/3Darwin.htm

What I never particularly got is- why target evolution? Why not target Newtonian physics? Save for the most extreme fundamentalist, evolutionary theory doesn't endanger Christian dogma. Newtonian physics, however, is entirely deterministic and therefore precludes free will, which is entirely incompatible with the Christian concept of being judged for one's sins.

The bible doesn't say a thing about how gravity works. However the theory of evolution directly conflicts with that silly story about the creation of the world, which too many people deeply believe in.

Plus a huge bunch of idiots find it offensive that they are part of an evolved primate species and not some god's created ultimate destined rulers of the world.

a huge bunch of idiots

Yeah, guess that's what it boils down to. Further discussion would be preaching to the choir.

What I never particularly got is- why target evolution? Why not target Newtonian physics? Save for the most extreme fundamentalist, evolutionary theory doesn't endanger Christian dogma. Newtonian physics, however, is entirely deterministic and therefore precludes free will, which is entirely incompatible with the Christian concept of being judged for one's sins.

That would require some sort of critical thinking skills to even realize this could be a question.

This is one of my favorite posts in all these god threads btw.