i was wondering, what are the peeps views on Sine wave? BS? i think its BS and some sort of psuedo fancy scientific name for hip snapping/ rhythym in the form.

im looking for more insights from other people though

All's I know is that Sine waves are math functions.

Absolute bullshit.

I remember back in the 80s and 90s never, ever hearing of a "sine wave" in TKD. My wife, her two brothers, and most of their friends were all TKD students, and it was never brought up.

Years later I hear about this "sine wave" thing, see it demonstrated, and couldn't help but think "wow, they've learned that gravity can help their strikes, how nice."

Yet they completely **** up the concept by bouncing up and down.

Yet they completely **** up the concept by bouncing up and down.

I remember when I first started training, our school went to a lot of open, point-sparring tournaments. We'd specifically train in our classes to "time" the bouncy-bouncy in order to catch the cat we were fighting against when he was in the air. Made for entertaining sparring matches (and a lot of faux-fouls when a guy was hit with a light contact technique he simply couldn't resist, making said technique look pretty comic-book-awesome) to say the least.

I also liked how the TKD guys thought that, since the back and spine were off-limits target areas, it was a good idea to walk backward toward their opponent, depriving them of points. That led to more than one excessive contact judgement on the part of the non-TKD opponent... Some folks just didn't cotton to that kind of sportsmanship/gamesmanship.

Without Sine wave, there would be just one less thing for people to argue about on youtube.

To me, it's a good example of how too much theory, when divorced from practicality, can be used to convince martial arts students to learn and practice movements that are ridiculous.

People who don't understand mathematical, physical, or other scientific ideas should not be teaching or explaining their martial arts using said ideas. That is what happened in this case. The results are not atypical.

Without Sine wave, there would be just one less thing for people to argue about on youtube.

To me, it's a good example of how too much theory, when divorced from practicality, can be used to convince martial arts students to learn and practice movements that are ridiculous.

I think it has less to do with the principles themselves being divorced of practicality and more to do with the people who created this application of principles not understanding the principles in question.

People have written entire degree theses on the mechanics and kinematics of just walking. It's incredibly presumptuous and arrogant for those ITF-TKD people who created the "sine wave" stuff to believe they can explain something as complex physically as punching in something as simple as "Gravity goes down, the sine wave goes down, so the sine wave will make you punch more better!" What do they have against the cosine wave by the way? It's probably closer to what they are trying to explain anyway.

^
Thread winner.

Mav,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGEoR1f5aRc

I love you too, brother, I love you too.

i was wondering, what are the peeps views on Sine wave? BS? i think its BS and some sort of psuedo fancy scientific name for hip snapping/ rhythym in the form.

im looking for more insights from other people though

The term "Sine Wave" is simply a metaphor to describe how the body moves up and down smoothly when the knees are flexed to generate power in hand techniques. It is meant to be descriptive and there is no actual use of physics terms along with it.

It is descriptive just like "L Stance"
or "W Shape Block" and "U shape Block" Those things look kind of like the letters used, but not exactly like the letters, especialy "U shape " which would be more like a "C" yet no one gets bent out of shape because the positions are not exact representations of the letter.

The motion is contrasted to metaphors "Flat Wave" level headed motion, or saw tooth wave sharp jerky motion. The flat wave or level headed motion while stepping is what is often evident in soem Japanese patterns.

Before the term appeared in 1983 people often used the term "Spring Style" . The issue of flexing the knees appeared in earlier texts.

While use of the term "Sine Wave " is unique to General Choi, the concept of bending the knees to generate power in Hand techniques is not. Boxers do it. Bruce Lee references it in his Secret of the one and 2 inch punch. It is the same concept as "Closed Chain linking" and Kinetic Linking " Used in the XMA and Fight Science TV shows and which could be found on the web.

Are certain exhibitions overdone? Yes. There are a couple of reasons for this. For some if General Choi said some is good, they figured more is better. This happened when he would talk about hip twist and then see people doing it and he would tell them it was too much.

Another aspect is that many pattern motions are exagerated. Whether this is good or bad would fill many pages of debate. One use of exagerated motions for practice was highlighted (for me) at Peyton Quinn's RMCAT (Session taught by Bill Kipp) which adresses the adrenal stress effect making motions smaller and by practicing larger motions (Note that RMCAT has nothing to do with any martial art system) under adrenal stress those motions while reduced in size will still be large and powerful.

Just my insight. Basicaly, that some get hung up on literal translations, and direct physics interpretations. AFAIAC that was not the intent.

One use of exagerated motions for practice was highlighted (for me) at Peyton Quinn's RMCAT (Session taught by Bill Kipp) which adresses the adrenal stress effect making motions smaller and by practicing larger motions (Note that RMCAT has nothing to do with any martial art system) under adrenal stress those motions while reduced in size will still be large and powerful.
Oh i get it, like how when in boxing it gets really wild and they start throwing really tight compact hooks, because thats what happens when the adrenaline starts flowing.

Oh i get it, like how when in boxing it gets really wild and they start throwing really tight compact hooks, because thats what happens when the adrenaline starts flowing.

You can choose to accept the adrenal stress theory or not. However, do not confuse the sport environment with a real world attack situation. The adrenal stress levels are completely different. Whether or not the sport / competition trrained athlete will experience the same levels of adrenal stress as the non sport trained athlete depends on many factors difficult to measure and apply, some of which may have little or nothing to do with the sport training including how many real world confrontations they have been in.

I think you should go out and compete in a full contact sporting match before you get to lecture us with any more of your bullshit.