I just learned how to do a shoulder throw today in class (yay me). I really like the throw and i wanna use it tomorrow during some sparring. What are some ways to set it up?

I just learned how to do a shoulder throw today in class (yay me). I really like the throw and i wanna use it tomorrow during some sparring. What are some ways to set it up?
Shoulder throw? There are probably hundreds of variations. Your question sucks because it is so vague that it is almost unanswerable.

Find a video that depicts something close to what you're talking about and post it if you want constructive advice.

I recommend throwing them by or from the shoulder in some matter.

Is this the scrotum assisted shoulder throw?

Sorry, i didn't know that there was more than one type on shoulder throw in San Shou.

YouTube - San Shou Sanda Kung Fu Kickboxing 散手 www.kungfu.net (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Xy579B5eA&feature=channel_page)

Its at :06

in judo that's called seoi nage. sometimes it's handy to use judo terms when talking about sanda throws.

since no one is going to leave their arm out for you like in that video (i know, it's pad work, and that's totally legit for training the technique) i would suggest the following:

1) get the clinch (for this throw, i suggest 50/50 collar tie)
2) get your opponent moving forward (you can pull him forward, or you can be sneaky, and push him away, causing him to push back and getting the movement that you want.)
3) hip check -> throw

if you can't just ask your coach, i would suggest watching the karo parysian instructional video on no-gi judo throws. it's a gold mine.

One way to set it up that I discovered by accident:
I have a tendancy to end a side kick turned slightly away from my opponent. The typical response is for him to try to punch me in the face, requiring him to punch over my shoulder. Make sure you are looking over the shoulder on the side you want him to engage, and look away as soon as the shot is fired. This takes the target away from him as you execute the throw using the arm he has basically just handed to you.

This is not so much a set up, as my way of getting out of a bad spot, but it rarely fails. Of course when it does, you get popped P>)

I want to correct ya'll on some points.

Seoi = back carry or to carry on the back it refers to an action

Kata = shoulder

Kata guruma, shoulder wheel, is a fireman's carry. You place uke on your shoulders and roll them off.

In a properly executed seoi nage, ippon or morote, uke never touches your shoulder. Your shoulder has nothing to do with the throw other the joining your arms to your body. If you are loading them on your shoulder to throw you are doing it wrong. If you are experiencing a problem with uke going off the wrong side this is the cause of your problem. I for one will choke you out if you attempt it one me.

In an ippon seoi your bicep should be in uke's arm pit and your forarm is pinching the arm. In morote your forearm is in the armpit.

I want to correct ya'll on some points.

Seoi = back carry or to carry on the back it refers to an action

Kata = shoulder

Kata guruma, shoulder wheel, is a fireman's carry. You place uke on your shoulders and roll them off.

In a properly executed seoi nage, ippon or morote, uke never touches your shoulder. Your shoulder has nothing to do with the throw other the joining your arms to your body. If you are loading them on your shoulder to throw you are doing it wrong. If you are experiencing a problem with uke going off the wrong side this is the cause of your problem. I for one will choke you out if you attempt it one me.

In an ippon seoi your bicep should be in uke's arm pit and your forarm is pinching the arm. In morote your forearm is in the armpit.

Josh, I mean no disrespect, but I don't think the Japanese nominclature is that relevant to this discussion, since its about unnamed throws from Sanda.

Here's video with Al Pope doing pretty much what I described above (1:22 of this vid). YouTube - Sanshou Sanda kung fu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdXorYzyObQ)
Out of curiosity, what name would you give to the throw? How would one set it up in Judo?

Josh, you're absolutely right. About judo. Please take a moment to read the thread title again.

josh -

let me start by saying that i am a judo white belt, and my knowledge of judo is pretty damn minimal so far, so i bow to your superior knowledge on these matters.

i'm aware that what we sometimes refer to as a "shoulder" throw in sanda does not use the shoulder when done properly. that's why i referenced seoi nage, as the throw that the OP posted a video of looks like seoi nage to me (please correct me if i am wrong, sometimes the differences between similar judo throws confuse me.)

to make things worse, in most sanda, there is little distinction between that throw, the version where tori wraps around uke's neck, or o goshi. they are all usually called "hip throw variations" in my experience. and yes, i know that most of those aren't considered hip throws in judo either.

since judo has been kind enough (or anal retentive enough, depending on your viewpoint) to give a different name for every variation of a throw, i suggested that we stick with the judo names for the throws (as they are the most specific.)

does that clear up where i was coming from?

It doesn't matter if its Judo sanda budo fumanchu or jacking off if your doing it wrong your doing it wrong.

I am not arguing the point of the name I am correcting you to so you can have a proper under standing of the terminology and a better under standing of the technique.

While you may be doing sanda the throw is the same an ippon seoi nage without the gi. So which way is correct? I am going to go with the one that is used by more people.

I for one will choke you out if you attempt it one me.

There's no choking in Sanda.

There's no choking in Sanda.
There is also no gripping in sanda.

I want to correct ya'll on some points.

Seoi = back carry or to carry on the back it refers to an action

Kata = shoulder

Kata guruma, shoulder wheel, is a fireman's carry. You place uke on your shoulders and roll them off.

In a properly executed seoi nage, ippon or morote, uke never touches your shoulder. Your shoulder has nothing to do with the throw other the joining your arms to your body. If you are loading them on your shoulder to throw you are doing it wrong. If you are experiencing a problem with uke going off the wrong side this is the cause of your problem. I for one will choke you out if you attempt it one me.

In an ippon seoi your bicep should be in uke's arm pit and your forarm is pinching the arm. In morote your forearm is in the armpit.

Correct about the back carry definition.

However, there is a Judo version of seoi nage that has tori's shoulder under uke's armpit. This is illustrated (so you won't think I'm pulling it out of my ass) in Kodokan Judo: Throwing Techniques by Toshiro Daigo, page 12. This is the Nage No Kata version of Ippon Seoi Nage. When I saw this, it was a bit of a shock to me, because for all of my tests from sankyu to sandan, I had done it by catching uke under the armpit with the crook of my arm, as described by Josh.

Judo throws are based on principles. The seoi principle is as Josh described, a "back carry" principle, so regardless of how your hands work, as long as uke is loaded on your back (usually the upper back), it is considered a seoi nage in Judo.

In San Shou, I have no idea, they may well call it a shoulder throw. I'm only qualified to comment on Judo!

josh -

let me start by saying that i am a judo white belt, and my knowledge of judo is pretty damn minimal so far, so i bow to your superior knowledge on these matters.

i'm aware that what we sometimes refer to as a "shoulder" throw in sanda does not use the shoulder when done properly. that's why i referenced seoi nage, as the throw that the OP posted a video of looks like seoi nage to me (please correct me if i am wrong, sometimes the differences between similar judo throws confuse me.)

to make things worse, in most sanda, there is little distinction between that throw, the version where tori wraps around uke's neck, or o goshi. they are all usually called "hip throw variations" in my experience. and yes, i know that most of those aren't considered hip throws in judo either.

since judo has been kind enough (or anal retentive enough, depending on your viewpoint) to give a different name for every variation of a throw, i suggested that we stick with the judo names for the throws (as they are the most specific.)

does that clear up where i was coming from?

Judo does not give a different name for evey variation of a throw, it names throws based on principles. So O Goshi, Koshi Guruma, Uki Goshi, Utsuri Goshi, Ushiro Goshi, etc., are different throws that work in different ways. Example, O Goshi and Tsuri Goshi look very similar, but, have a critical difference in how they work. That difference might be cutting it a bit fine for some folks, but it does exist.

Regards,
Ben Reinhardt
Bonners Ferry, Idaho