Maybe it's because the officer could not apply it correctly and just held on until the suspect stopped struggling?

> When blood spurts the break in the flow is considered an air bubble,
Nah. It's a closed system - no gas comes in. When blood doesn't flow, it just doesn't flow.

> remember the bloods purpose is to supply oxegyn to the body.
Remember that the oxygen delivered by the blood is chemically bound to red blood cells and not in the form of an air bubble of any kind. That would indeed be bad - it's similar to what happens when divers resurface without sufficient adaption to the pressure.

> A stoke is when the blood flow to the brain in interupted
> and a heart attack is when the flow to the heart is interupted.
and none of these have been observed in connection with stranges AFAIK. If you have evidence of it happening, please go ahead.

> I pointed out the word could be cause the result is possable..
in other words, it was pure speculation?

iIn the judo link it mentions the tests were done over 40 years ago. Information should have changed due to medical advances. It also says that it is not as bad as a boxing KO but does not say safe.

Richie , as in most discussions all possablities should be discussed to insure a proper outcome.

I agree with the closed system, however a gap in the flow will could cause seriuos damage. This is when the the hold maintained an dnot released after tap/ immediate black out.

Hmmm.... I think having distinguishing terms is nice, but my guess is that they are used interchangeably. If you try to distinguish, it may lead to miscommunications with people that don't. In fact, this just came up the other day at my school. I think talking about air or blood supply will always be more clear, or at least getting everyone on the same page first.

Technically, most chokes/strangles done with the arms can be changed between blood supply and air supply simply by repositioning the arm-elbow-shoulder. So again, do you rename the entire technique due to a slight positioning adjustment?

I have been told for years that the 'air-supply' attacks can do damage inside of your throat, but am not interested in finding out through experience if it is true or not. ;) However, looking at it this way, cramming a bone against your throat which is only protected by soft tissue, it doesn't seem far fetched to say that the trachea could be damaged.

> It also says that it is not as bad as a boxing KO but does not say safe.
From the article:


Choking in Judo is safe because since the advent of Judo statistics show no fatality attributed to the shime-waza. Moreover, scientific studies on choking reveal no deleterious after effects.

Now, is this a choke or a strangle ?

"Choking in Judo is safe because since the advent of Judo statistics show no fatality attributed to the shime-waza. Moreover, scientific studies on choking reveal no deleterious after effects. "

Is this a air attack or blood , also this is in a sport context were once applied the person taps . They say very few have gone to black out the info is tsill over forty years old and more than likly modern medical info will frown on blood flow being interuppted.

> Now, is this a choke or a strangle ?

Judging from the angle of the shin and the position of the arm - probably neither ;-)
But triangles have always felt a lot more like strangles than chokes to me, and the way the are set up, they put a lot of pressure on the sides of the neck rather than the trachea.

Kempocos: yeah, it's important to think about what could happen, but it's more important to identify and deal with the things that do in fact happen on a regular basis. I agree that a continued stop of blood flow to the brain is a bad thing, though ;-)

"Kempocos: yeah, it's important to think about what could happen, but it's more important to identify and deal with the things that do in fact happen on a regular basis"

This statement is very true.

> Is this a air attack or blood ,
from what I understood, apart from the rear naked, they only used strangles/ blood attacks in the studies.

> also this is in a sport context were once applied the person taps .
in the studies, no. In everyday sports competitions, yes.

> more than likly modern medical info will frown on blood flow being interuppted.
they would "frown on" just about anything martial artists routinely do to each other. The question is, is it really dangerous? And until more evidence comes in, I won't comment on that.

Originally posted by Osiris
The RNC is a STRANGLE.


actually it can be both dependign on the position of the hands

choke-

http://www.judoinfo.com/hadaka.jpg


strangle-

http://bjj.org/techniques/jen/tech8a/

In the "Is it a choke or a strangle" debate most people focus on the blood vs air thing, which is okay. From reading pathology references I've seen it seems the term "strangle" is used whenever something surrounds the neck and cuts of air or blood, while "choke" is used when something is lodged inside the airway.

So if you look at it that way, all martial arts chokes/strangles are strangles and the only way to choke someone is to ram your fist down their throat.

Yep, I am all for trying to ram my fist down someone throat, I'll try it tonight and let you know tomorrow.

Originally posted by ronin69
Some police forces have banned the RNC ( the choke as depicted in the link above) for the very reason of having peoples windpipes crushed in the heat of the struggle.

In the heat of struggle is not the same as purposefully doing it. 'Course guillitines hurt like hell so I'll buy it.

Yep, they do: