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King Sleepless
5/18/2009 4:15pm,
There are many who find a good alibi far more attractive than an achievement. For an achievement does not settle anything permanently. We still have to prove our worth anew each day: we have to prove that we are as good today as we were yesterday. But when we have a valid alibi for not achieving anything we are fixed, so to speak, for life. Moreover, when we have an alibi for not writing a book, painting a picture, and so on, we have an alibi for not writing the greatest book and not painting the greatest picture. Small wonder that the effort expended and the punishment endured in obtaining a good alibi often exceed the effort and grief requisite for the attainment of a most marked achievement. -Eric Hoffer

A lot of what we do on Bullshido is fight the symptoms/results of why people are fraudulent assholes. However, hardly ever do we dive into the reasoning behind this. The core of why so many people decide that choosing to lie, cheat, etc. is so much easier.

As Hoffer says above, it is just easier to find an excuse and use it as a means of finality. Stagnation is more comfortable than trying. This is the reason why most of you suck. "I know I suck, but...." is admittance of your stagnation. It makes you feel comfortable, because you don't have to prove yourself anymore to anybody. You've got your place and it's safe and comfortable. You use it as a coverall for your poor performances or in the case of many MANY posters here, the reason why they, even though they've spent years training have only marginally gotten better.

You're only one step above the people who practice the lies and deceit of strip mall krotty tkd because you recognize it's a problem. But still, you suck. Still you try to find an excuse so you don't have to try to achieve.

Sure, some of you can try all you might, but whatever poor cards nature and fate dealt to you inhibits you from achieving and being great, but most of you have potential and talent but just aren't going to try or can't try hard enough.

Some of you will come into this tread and claim that you are doing your best, but I am gonna say, bullshit. The problem with bullshidoka is that they do this very same thing. They say they're trying their best, they say they're doing what they can, they say and say and excuse themselves as much as possible. You and they may try your best maybe for that hour you're in class. Maybe. Not all the time, maybe like 50% of the time.

There's only a small handful of people who actually have the determination to do the 100% all the time in every class, these people are the ones who further improve and get better. What I'm asking you is to honestly look at yourself and ask if you are doing this. If you are one who is pushing yourself to the limit of ability.

If we can't fight this cause, there's no point in fighting the symptoms.

It is Fake
5/18/2009 4:31pm,
You're only one step above the people who practice the lies and deceit of strip mall krotty tkd because you recognize it's a problem. But still, you suck. Still you try to find an excuse so you don't have to try to achieve.
Your arrogance is laughable.
How long did it take Omega to convince you to train seriously?

thorthe power
5/18/2009 4:35pm,
Nice read makes one thoughtful!!! Just wondering, you stated that you know you suck...which catagory are you in? Not being a dick or anything, but a read like that makes me realize that no one will ever improve unless they are honest with themself about their current skill level first.

Reminds me of a thread a year or so ago about the "Mindset of an accidental larper" or something like that. I'll try to find the link to it later...got to go to physical tharapy then train a little.

King Sleepless
5/18/2009 4:42pm,
Your arrogance is laughable.
How long did it take Omega to convince you to train seriously?

I don't see how this is arrogance. I didn't say that I was great, nor did I say that I sucked.

I honestly don't know how to catergorize myself. I train and I train hard. I always put 100% into everything, every punch, every kick, etc. That's how I won competitions. The way I was raised, I never had another choice. It was either 100% or don't eat.

I don't admit that I suck. I also am not saying that I am excellent. I am saying I am not good enough.


Nice read makes one thoughtful!!! Just wondering, you stated that you know you suck...which catagory are you in? Not being a dick or anything, but a read like that makes me realize that no one will ever improve unless they are honest with themself about their current skill level first.

Reminds me of a thread a year or so ago about the "Mindset of an accidental larper" or something like that. I'll try to find the link to it later...got to go to physical tharapy then train a little.

I am in neither. I'm in that nebulous gray area where I am not good enough. I'm better than most people, but cannot offer anything like the greats can. I'm just not good enough yet.

7thSamurai
5/18/2009 4:44pm,
There's only a small handful of people who actually have the determination to do the 100% all the time in every class, these people are the ones who further improve and get better. What I'm asking you is to honestly look at yourself and ask if you are doing this. If you are one who is pushing yourself to the limit of ability.

Discussion about the limit of one's ability is relative to the situation of the person. For instance, I have a pregnant wife, carry 9 hours in school, and work 40-50 hours a week. I also train three hours a day. I push as much as a I can, but I realize that I'm not a professional athlete that has a paycheck on the line that is tied to their development in terms of skill and proficiency.

Life gets in the way. I doubt you're an elite athlete. Perhaps you push more than another while training, but you're not that person and you're not experiencing their life.

So, do you have any children? What about your job? Are you in school? What makes you think that your level of training is superior to another and that everyone else is mediocre?

JohnnyCache
5/18/2009 4:49pm,
cue 1000 whining posts about how life gets in the way and/or sirc is arrogant

1point2
5/18/2009 4:52pm,
I disagree with the fundamental assertion in the OP, to wit, that this "I suck but it's the best I can do" is the underlying cause of Bullshidoism. Many Bullshidoka do not even realize they are bullshitting--they have pulled the wool over their own eyes due to emotional issues, or are mentally unstable, or have had the wool pulled over their eyes and never did the scientific due-diligence to discover that they were deceived and not as bad-ass as they believe.

What the OP is talking about is a rationalization, not a reason. He thinks that it is propter hoc but it is post hoc. He also roams way off of the bullshidoka argument in his attempt to plaster a "NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH" sign on everyone who doesn't train the way he thinks.

This is immature philosophy. Let's remember that Bullshido and McDojo are specific terms that mean specific things. Broadening their definition (as the OP is doing here, or rather, is attempting to do here) is like a hyperfeminist saying that all heterosexual intercourse is rape; it is an idiotic overextension of a valid observation.

(See how I threw him a bone there? It is indeed a valid observation.)

King Sleepless
5/18/2009 4:55pm,
Discussion about the limit of one's ability is relative to the situation of the person. For instance, I have a pregnant wife, carry 9 hours in school, and work 40-50 hours a week. I also train three hours a day. I push as much as a I can, but I realize that I'm not a professional athlete that has a paycheck on the line that is tied to their development in terms of skill and proficiency.

Life gets in the way. I doubt you're an elite athlete. Perhaps you push more than another while training, but you're not that person and you're not experiencing their life.

So, do you have any children? What about your job? Are you in school? What makes you think that your level of training is superior to another and that everyone else is mediocre?

THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE TRAINING TO YOUR LIMITS. WHY ARE YOU WHINING ABOUT IT?

And no, I am a really excellent athlete actually. I participate in SEVERAL different sports other than Martial Arts and excel just as much if not more than I do. I consistently run some of the fastest times of the day at the track. I'm a very accomplished dancer, runner and soccer player.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention I'm also an accomplished gymnast. No, no kids, yes school and work too!

I know it sucks because people generally want someone who speaks like this to be a sucky athlete with little to 0 ability. But that's just not the case. I'm very keenly aware of my capabilities as I have stated above.

I don't understand why you idiots think that because I say, "YOU SUCK STOP USING IT AS AN EXCUSE" to mean, "I AM BETTER THAN YOU HAHAAHAHAH!" even though, every single time I bring this subject up, I EXPLICITLY NEVER SAY THAT I AM BETTER THAN YOU.


cue 1000 whining posts about how life gets in the way and/or sirc is arrogant

Too late, the -reps are already raining in. "YOU ARE ARROGANT!"


Listen, I don't have to taste **** to know it's not good for me. Coaches don't have to be ale to kick their athlete's asses to know that they suck. Get over it. I have more insight than you. I'm just not nice about it, and if that bothers you, then please go shoot your mouth with a super soaker full of pee.

It is Fake
5/18/2009 4:57pm,
cue 1000 whining posts about how life gets in the way and/or sirc is arrogant
999 sir 999.

Dsimon3387
5/18/2009 5:01pm,
Trying to figure out exactly why this rant is here. Yeah Sarcasto...

the Aztec king and his workers.


There once was a wise Aztec King who wanged to complete a new temple in he shortest time possible. he took 30 men and commanded them to roll the materials up a narrow and steep hill. After the first day the men stated that it was "Impossible" to get the materials up the hill... so the King... we will call him King Sarcasto told them... "yu can do do this! most people do not try as hard as they could so go to it!" they went back and came bac to the king again "King Sarcasto we could not do it sorry"

King Sarcasto then proceeded to execute ten of the men then gave his speech again... wouldn't you know it? they managed to get the materials up the mountain with only twenty men!

King Sleepless
5/18/2009 5:01pm,
I disagree with the fundamental assertion in the OP, to wit, that this "I suck but it's the best I can do" is the underlying cause of Bullshidoism. Many Bullshidoka do not even realize they are bullshitting--they have pulled the wool over their own eyes due to emotional issues, or are mentally unstable, or have had the wool pulled over their eyes and never did the scientific due-diligence to discover that they were deceived and not as bad-ass as they believe.

What the OP is talking about is a rationalization, not a reason. He thinks that it is propter hoc but it is post hoc. He also roams way off of the bullshidoka argument in his attempt to plaster a "NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH" sign on everyone who doesn't train the way he thinks.

This is immature philosophy. Let's remember that Bullshido and McDojo are specific terms that mean specific things. Broadening their definition (as the OP is doing here, or rather, is attempting to do here) is like a hyperfeminist saying that all heterosexual intercourse is rape; it is an idiotic overextension of a valid observation.

(See how I threw him a bone there? It is indeed a valid observation.)

They rationalize reasons.

I kind of just typed this up really quickly because I'm in between job sites right now and running home and running out so I didn't quite get the transition as I wanted to. But you get the idea.

But the point I was trying to make is that they are rationalizing their excuses (deadliness, superior secret techniques, etc.) to stray from achieving success and aptitude.

I don't know if you've ever come across a bullshido practitioner and offered to spar him. I do it every time I do. I gong sau them on the spot. They get flustered, their skin flushes, the excuse machine starts cranking in their mind. They know, they know deep down inside why they don't want to spar me. Because they know they'll lose. They know all their stuff doesn't mean anything. They've just never been presented with the obstacle to overcome.

Most people are too nice to say anything to them. Just let them live in their little bubble until they find a tactful way to show them the light. My pragmatism usually gets in the way of tact, and I would just rather crucifix them and butt scoot into the light to show them.

1point2
5/18/2009 5:06pm,
i, um, I actually hear you...but...


I kind of just typed this up really quickly because I'm in between job sites right now and running home and running out so I didn't quite get the transition as I wanted to. But you get the idea.

But the point I was trying to make

Most people are too nice to say anything to them. Just let them live in their little bubble until they find a tactful way to show them the light. My pragmatism usually gets in the way of tact, and I would just rather crucifix them and butt scoot into the light to show them.

In the bold part, you're making stupid excuses. Minor irony.

Anyway, as for the non-bolded part--how well does this work? What's your success rate of turning these bullshidoka into contributing, sparring members of the martial arts community? I'd prefer separate numbers on Full-Out-Bullshidoka (Frank Dux, etc) separate from People-Who-Don't-Train-How-You-Want-Them-To (Japanese Jujutsuka).

JohnnyCache
5/18/2009 5:10pm,
I disagree with the fundamental assertion in the OP, to wit, that this "I suck but it's the best I can do" is the underlying cause of Bullshidoism. Many Bullshidoka do not even realize they are bullshitting--they have pulled the wool over their own eyes due to emotional issues, or are mentally unstable, or have had the wool pulled over their eyes and never did the scientific due-diligence to discover that they were deceived and not as bad-ass as they believe.

What the OP is talking about is a rationalization, not a reason. He thinks that it is propter hoc but it is post hoc. He also roams way off of the bullshidoka argument in his attempt to plaster a "NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH" sign on everyone who doesn't train the way he thinks.

This is immature philosophy. Let's remember that Bullshido and McDojo are specific terms that mean specific things. Broadening their definition (as the OP is doing here, or rather, is attempting to do here) is like a hyperfeminist saying that all heterosexual intercourse is rape; it is an idiotic overextension of a valid observation.

(See how I threw him a bone there? It is indeed a valid observation.)

You're thinking too hard. "my goal is not to be good but to do ______" is a stupid and self defeated statement. It arises from the braiding of masculinity into fighting skill - you don't hear it in any other hobby. "My goal is to have a nice hike, not catch fish"

It's OK not to be SUPER COMPETITIVE and not everyone is going to end up in the polygon/thunderdome/whatever - but a goal divorced of improvement is a recipe for bad training.

It is Fake
5/18/2009 5:16pm,
It's OK not to be SUPER COMPETITIVE and not everyone is going to end up in the polygon/thunderdome/whatever - but a goal divorced of improvement is a recipe for bad training.Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

King Sleepless
5/18/2009 5:21pm,
i, um, I actually hear you...but...



In the bold part, you're making stupid excuses. Minor irony.

Anyway, as for the non-bolded part--how well does this work? What's your success rate of turning these bullshidoka into contributing, sparring members of the martial arts community? I'd prefer separate numbers on Full-Out-Bullshidoka (Frank Dux, etc) separate from People-Who-Don't-Train-How-You-Want-Them-To (Japanese Jujutsuka).

I understand that you're trying to play devil's advocate, but you're doing it poorly and not picking at anything important.

Despite my excuse, my writing still gets my point across, except to you, so I figured you might have a higher level of reading comprehension that needs further massaging to understand the deeper complexities of the subject. However, you lack skills of analogy. My excuse doesn't stop me from trying to achieve something and stay stagnant. You're trying to bring the stupid bullshit humor of YMAS into this thrad, and I want to say it right now, don't. Don't even fucking think about it. Just stop posting in here right now, I'll go make another thread you can **** in, just not in this one. Go rep fishing in there.

However to answer your question, it actually works well. Mostly because I'm an aggressive asshole about it and I will pressure and pressure and pressure them until they crack. There was a guy in Japanese that told me he studied ninjutsu. I told him "I dabble in martial arts." and asked him for a friendly sparring match, he asked what I did and I listed off my experience. He did not want to spar. Every day. Every day I would pressure him. Every day I would ask him, in front of his friends, embarrass him when he had to say no and make up some reason why he couldn't, which they knew was a lie, because they are 1) his friends and know he was not doing whatever excuse he gave me, and 2) that he had never shown them any kind of skill in battle ever. After about 3 weeks, he finally confessed to me that he didn't want to spar because he only trained every so often at the Ninjutsu school and that he wasn't sure he could beat me without a weapon. He cracked. I told him about how much a lie most ninjutsu schools are and he started going to the PAL boxing league.

I only meet these types every once in a while. Some are willing to spar and when they do and I stomp on them and explain why their art sucks, they look into new avenues. Some aren't and I just keep grilling them and hassling them aggressively until they decide to either avoid me or confess. There's really no other option except to kill me.

King Sleepless
5/18/2009 5:24pm,
You're thinking too hard. "my goal is not to be good but to do ______" is a stupid and self defeated statement. It arises from the braiding of masculinity into fighting skill - you don't hear it in any other hobby. "My goal is to have a nice hike, not catch fish"

It's OK not to be SUPER COMPETITIVE and not everyone is going to end up in the polygon/thunderdome/whatever - but a goal divorced of improvement is a recipe for bad training.

I agree with the bolded part wholeheartedly. People are mistaking what I'm trying to say. I am in no way, and in fact have not said, everyone should be on super competitive levels. No, in fact, not at all what I'm trying to say.

I'm saying, improve, be better. Don't settle for your stagnation. It's a bit of a phenomena that only in Martial arts are people willing to be stagnant. In soccer, I never thought, "I just want to run a lot and kick the ball a few times." or in ballet I never thought, "I just wanna stand on stage."

Wait no, I lie, I did... when I was 7 years old.