http://www.total-mma.com/2008/05/26/muay-thai-rule-changes-for-lumpinee/

Did a search didn't see it, if there is already a thread I apologize please delete.

I think these new rules will give an advantage to those taller in the clinch as you pretty much won't be allowed double underhooks, or hell pretty much much underhooks in the clinch will be eliminated. Personally this looks like a strong lost for those hard clinchers and kneers.

It doesn't really change the game that much except for making for quicker breaks in clinch fighting. Under hook clinching is mainly just desperation, stalling the action and hoping to tag some points while neutralizing the taller opponent's reach advantage. On the one hand It sucks that any steps would be made to make the rules more restrictive, but on the other hand, having the action continually stalled by fighters grabbing each other around the waist/chest can be pretty tedious.

The rule change doesn't really put any fighter at a disadvantage though, since it just means a shorter fighter will simply break the clinch by grabbing around the waist and get the action restarted.

ZOMG!!! They're gonna ruin the sport!!!

This "change" took place almost a year ago.

Yeah, it isn't new; still waiting for it to filter through to the West, though. I agree with Kid, it's a positive change, as it's usually a desperate move pulled by the weaker grappler, and it stalls the action.

It's funny that this is already the rule, since clinch action in Thailand doesn't really look any different to me than it ever did

What's next? Rope escape by tugging on your opponents waistband?

Yeah, it isn't new; still waiting for it to filter through to the West, though. I agree with Kid, it's a positive change, as it's usually a desperate move pulled by the weaker grappler, and it stalls the action.

I agree, too. The only difference in the Lumpinee fights I've seen is that the referee steps in as soon as one fighter grabs the other around the waist or chest. It does keep the action from stalling, and I find the higher neck, shoulder, and arm clinching more interesting anyway.

Question:
-Won't this make underhooking even more common as as stalling tactic, since the referee will separate the fighters immediately? Basically, turning it into a "get of clinch free" card?
I'm thinking of all of the turtling for referee standups in Judo. It seems like whenever sports add rules to prevent stalling, they just make stalling a more viable tactic.

Question:
-Won't this make underhooking even more common as as stalling tactic, since the referee will separate the fighters immediately? Basically, turning it into a "get (out) of clinch free" card?
I'm thinking of all of the turtling for referee standups in Judo. It seems like whenever sports add rules to prevent stalling, they just make stalling a more viable tactic.

I can't answer that, but I know what you're saying. I see that a lot here in the US because most gyms don't train clinch as much as they should. Guys grab and squeeze out of sheer desperation because they don't know what else to do.

Thais, on the other hand, don't need a "get out of clinch free" card... at least not since Dieselnoi retired.

damn underhooks always suited me, i nearly always got the takedown

Agreed, I use underhooks all the time, especially against taller opponents and I do throws from that position as well (this is under muay thai rules too). Getting the underhooks are a important skill that transitions well to wrestling.

Its not like Western MT seems to care about this change so i don't really either. I used underhooks for 4 or 5 of the clinches in my fight and scored two really big illegal takedowns so i'm a fan of them still :P.

Here's a good example of a "post-rule-change" fight at Lumpinee. The referee breaks the fighters up when one fighter (usually Saenchai, the shorter guy) grabs the other (Petboonchu) around the chest/waist, and whenever activity in the clinch otherwise slows down.

Saenchai vs. Petboonchu
http://sstv.siamsport.co.th/ViewClip.asp?C=00006637

This was s a great fight. Enjoy.

Question:
-Won't this make underhooking even more common as as stalling tactic, since the referee will separate the fighters immediately? Basically, turning it into a "get of clinch free" card?
I'm thinking of all of the turtling for referee standups in Judo. It seems like whenever sports add rules to prevent stalling, they just make stalling a more viable tactic.

I've always though of reaching for underhooks as a pretty dangerous way to escape the plum, if someone already has it cinched up. It gives a pretty open window for a knee to the chin.

Depends if they've broken your posture yet. If you are bent over in their plum any way to escape is going to be dangerous. My favorite way is to fall over backwards while protecting my head with my arms and even that has a good possibilty of getting soccer kicked in the head on the way down.