I saw a short clip somewhere of Bas Rutten doing an odd looking armlock. He was trying to do juji gatame, and the other dude grabbed his own hands to prevent the lock going on. So Bas grabbed the guys closest wrist with one hand, and with the other Bas's other hand he slid the forearm into the crook of uke's elbow and grabbed his own wrist, like he was doing ude garami but not actually twisting it. He then triangled/sankaku'ed his legs around the guys bent arm and then applied pressure with the legs untill the guy tapped. I has questions:

1) Does anyone know what this lock is?
2) Is it legal in judo and jujitsu comps?
3) is it one of those very dangerous ones like heel hooks and is it inadvisable to pull it out in sparring when the other person doesn't know what I'm trying to do?

I'll try to find a video and poast it.

This is the basic bicep slicer/elbow separator.

It is not legal as a submission in Judo, but you can use it to break their grip for the jujigatame.

It is not legal at the lower levels in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, and is sometimes banned in no-gi comps as well.


If cranked, it is very dangerous - you end up with two elbows on the same arm. It can also break the forearm and severely bruise the muscles of the arm.

If not cranked, it just hurts like hell, but you do get freak breaks.

They definitely hurt like hell. The first time I was caught in a bicep slicer I didn't know what the hell was happening and was tapping half a second too late. Got a good bruise to the inside of my arm, about 2/3 of arm length. Couldn't straighten out my arm for a week... Got lucky though, because nothing broke.

Actually it is taught in Neil Adam's Judo book on armlocks, and it is legal in Judo.

Coach Tripp,
My understanding is that only gatame and garami (sp) locks are allowed, of which this is neither. Or do you mean that it is allowed as a grip break but not as a submission itself?

YouTube - Bicep Slicer From Armbar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC82PZfAqY0)

That's the one I was talking about.

I was under the impression that arm locks against the ELBOW were legal.


This would be an arm lock against the elbow, wouldn't it?


That being said, its a dirty, terrible move that makes me scream like a girl.

I think the bicep slicer attacks the bicep and the forearm. I could be wrong, however.

If the pressure is on the elbow, any joint locking of same is legal.

At least it was when I was playing, and when Mr. Adams was playing.

A biceps slicer (also called a biceps lock or biceps crusher) is a compression lock that involves pressing the biceps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biceps_brachii) into the humerus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humerus). An effective biceps slicer can be applied by putting an arm or leg as a fulcrum on the opponents arm at the inside of the arm by the elbow, and flexing the opponents arm over the fulcrum. This will result in the biceps and forearm being pressed into the fulcrum.

The biceps slicer becomes most effective as a compression lock when the bony parts of the limb such as the shin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin) or any of the bones in the forearm are forced into the biceps of the opponent. The biceps slicer can also become a potent armlock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armlock) when it is applied in this manner, because the leverage causes an elongating and separating tension in the elbow joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbow), making this a legal technique in judo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judo) competition[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_lock#cite_note-0).

In Brazilian jiu-jitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_jiu-jitsu) competitions however, the biceps slicer is an illegal technique in lower level divisions of some major tournaments. [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_lock#cite_note-IBJJF-1)

This is what the collective internet has to say about it, so Mr. Tripp is correct.

I take it that I should warn any partners I spar with about it's use, and if they don't tap with light to moderate pressure I immediately catch and release?

I take it that I should warn any partners I spar with about it's use, and if they don't tap with light to moderate pressure I immediately catch and release?
Most people can tolerate moderate pressure. Don't go cranking on it and you'll be fine.

One note: the deeper you seat your wrist inside the elbow joint the more effective this lock becomes. So the submission becomes less effective if you're even a half of an inch away from being firmly seated in the crook of his elbow.

I'm glad to hear this is actually legal in Judo. I read on judoforum that it wasn't (though some said it used to be) - I believe that some are claiming that it *isn't* Judo even if it is legal in Judo.

As Upa mentions, some say that only gatame and garami are legal against the elbow, but it seems that it's just that those are the official methods of attacking it.

Random question:

I've always put the head-side foot under their head to finish this to help prevent a backroll to escape, as the leg on the chest is now on the the arm. In the video posted in this thread, the demonstrator keeps it on top of the face. Is there a more correct method of doing this, or are each placement for a specific purpose?

for reference, here's where I got the impression that the bicep slicer was not okay for submitting people in judo: http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=21738 (warning: long-ass thread)

If you were my player, I would tell you its legal, but NOT to do it.

Because an idiot ref could decide its not legal and you're screwed.

Everytime i go for this, though, it seems that i get my legs shucked off and they come up.


Should i figure four my legs, so they're over the body, rather then the face?