what is the general consensus about the WTTU/ATA/STF?

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

I see no reason to study TKD, unless you want to increase your flexibility, but if you want to do that, be a gymnast.

Well I don't know much about either 3, so I can not give you a good answer. This is what I have heard. (Mind you I said heard and I do not hold this to be the biblical truth). GM Lee (RIP) devised the business aspect of the system where his students would open a dojang and part of the monthly tuition and testing fees would trickle up to GM Lee. Once the students produced students who opened up schools they would do the same thing for their instructors and their instructors would send some money back up the chain. An Amway of martial arts per se. Again, it is only what I heard.

Now, as far as GM Lee, I talked to my instructor who was an acquaintance of his. He informed me that he was a nice gentleman and good martial artist. Now I do not know about your style in general. I am assuming it practices traditional taekwondo since it is not part of the WTF. I believe it is Sang Moo Kwan that you practice?

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

Personally I don't care about the ATA, wtu, sttf. They've done nothing to me. From a morale standpoint though I can't believe some of the things they let go for the sake of keeping somebody happy.

Two guys walk into a bar....ouch that's gotta hurt.

Most are black belt factories in my eyes.

I just want to say thank you to the late GM Lee and the ATA for helping make the letters TKD shorthand for bogus martial arts.

I Don't really like TKD these days, they can produce goo fighters but most schools are either sport tkd or mcdojos, very few traditional tkd schools out there.

"The night has come and all you lived for was in the day, but with understanding the night can be a powerfull alley"

I used to like tkd, but now I'm more in to MMA, BJJ, and Boxing.

"The night has come and all you lived for was in the day, but with understanding the night can be a powerfull alley"

The WTTU can kiss my ass.

"If you don't pay us $1000, we're not giving you your black belt."
"Bite me, asswipe. And I kicked that Korean chick's ass, no matter what 'points' you losers gave her. Compare bruises: on me, none; on her, black-and-blue all over."

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."

I am a member / Black Belt with both the WTF and the ATA. I believe that if you want to own an operate a school, the ATA is the place to be (At least as far as earning money goes). With that said, I believe that most ATA schools are Black Belt factories (Yes, I am a Certified ATA Instructor). Granted, there are some very good ATA schools out there that still have integrity and produce excellent Black Belts.....Most have gone the way of the McDojo. I do believe the ATA has the best program going for kids. The promotion standards need to be tougher and I don't believe in a child receiving a Black Belt until at least 8 years of age....14 - 16 for a 2nd degree. Over my years in the ATA I have seen the organization become too politically correct in an effort to attract a wider student base. The ATA, WTTU, and the STF are all the same org. The STF is the South American affiliate, the WTTU covers Europe, South Africa, etc.

Mr. Talbott is pretty close in his understanding of how the system works. He is also correct about GM Lee's ability...He was an outstanding martial artist...One of the quickest kicks I have ever seen. He was also a nice person who would spend hours going out of his way to talk with members of the organization. The style is Songahm TKD.

I also train with the WTF and have trained in Shotokan Karate. Each style has it good and bad points. I would love to study BJJ but there are no schools near my area.

Wow...8 for a black belt. That is sooo much better than what it is now.

8 is a big step up from where the ATA is now.....Obviously the maturity is not going to be there but in a commercial, money making organization like the ATA.............. The youth market is the big money maker for the ATA. It kills me to see the 5 and 6 year olds running around with black belts. They are still so clumsy. At least the average 8 year old has some physical maturity and athletic potential. In a perfect world much older would be desirable but in today's world, at least with the large organizations, this will never happen.

Yeah LAW. Tell them about the real world.

I think blackbelt level should be where someone can defend themselves from an average attacker, and there's no way in hell a 6 year old could do that.
But I'm also a self-defense type guy, so maybe its different with "sport" styles.

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
-Ghandi

ANd that is why they get a rep as a belt factory.

yuou also need to put into account that there are bad teachers and good teachers in every style. you cannot judge an organization as a whole. you also must look at the fact that the martial arts is for everyone. JKD Chick I respect your comment however you cannot judge an entire organization on what one perso does in an engagement. i do not down Jeet Kune Do. we as martial artists must respect each other. i have a good friend of mine who is a third degree in Kenpo, has studied Preying mantis Kung Fu, and Studied at the Lions den with ken shamrock. He previously thought that the ATA was "pretty boy karate" he has furthermore changed his mind. He is now an aspireing instructor in the ATA. He has just began his journey. the reason he came to the ATA was that he saw what i was learning and said "you have learned mnore in one year of training than i have in the past three years." my instructor is Richard Harman and is a great instructor and competitor. He is currently in the top five in forms, weapons and sparring for the world.

if anything i ask that you please respect us as martial artists. people are human and some of them are bad yet some are good.

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee