I thought it also depends on the school and not just the style? whether the particular school has good training or bad? besides Machida is also a bjj black belt, if the guy only does shotokan, there is no way he'd be where he's at today

Besides you stating the incredibly obvious, those hadokens that Machida throws in mid bouts have nothing to do with BJJ. Trust me.

I think we all know the REAL reason Penn lost...

YouTube - BJ Penn Kiss of Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6yuhIcVWc)

Does anyone else find it ironic that Lyoto Machida is the only one on the entire event who actually finished his opponent?

I thought it also depends on the school and not just the style? whether the particular school has good training or bad? besides Machida is also a bjj black belt, if the guy only does shotokan, there is no way he'd be where he's at today

Of course it's both a matter of specific school and training, as well as the aforementioned matter of individual talent. No doubt there is a dim mak practitioner out there training to take the MMA world by pressure-point storm.

As far as "only doing shotokan" goes, even the style's founder (like many of his era) advocated crosstraining. From his To Te Jutsu (1922, Kobundo Books, Tokyo) Gichin Funakoshi wrote:

"...it would be an asset to incorporate some Jujitsu into Karate. Depending on the strength of the opponent, interest is raised when some form of Jujitsu is used in the situation in addition to the appropriate Karate techniques...the more throwing techniques are used and trained with, the better it becomes a form of defense" (page 59). The following six pages feature photos of Funakoshi demonstrating armbars and various nagewaza.

This is in keeping with the pragmatic nature of the people involved (let's not forget how popular pre-UFC MMA was in Japan). Ideas about the "purity" of this or that Japanese/Okinawan MA tend to be more the province of western pencil-necks who've never been to Japan.

There have been threads arguing about the extent to which Karate-based fighters who've crosstrained and then succeeded in MMA can still be considered Karate practitioners. Guess that means that those whose base-style isn't Karate--and who similarly crosstrain in order to fight under the MMA ruleset--can no longer be called anything but "MMA fighters". If any fighter credits his base-style in any way for his success in MMA ("I got my footwork and my work-ethic from *place name of base-style here* long before my MMA career"), then they must be lying.

Either that or it's just the Karate practitioners who are lying. Or...the lolKrotty krew just cannot bring themselves to believe that Karate can actually be a basis for effective fighting, no matter how many wins are racked up by the likes of Machida or GSP. Don't matter whut dey say, if dey win, it ain't nuthin' at all to do with lolKrotty, hyuck-hyuck-hyuck.

Re: GSP being a dirty vaseline cheat

Round 1 vs Penn

http://i44.tinypic.com/2qk8gae.gif

After round 3 vs fitch

http://i40.tinypic.com/2mo75oo.gif

After round 1 vs Serra

http://i41.tinypic.com/333dd2x.gif

props to spuddy from the UG

i'm gunna drop the BJJ/MT, go join a shotokan school and become an MMA fighter.

YouTube - Lyoto Machida - Karate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E)

I just realized my buddy John Howard, is the John Howard that fought at this thing. Doomsday is fire...I grappled him once, cracked my elbow real nice for me. Doesn't click any more, but it took more than a year to stop doing so.

i'm gunna drop the BJJ/MT, go join a shotokan school and become an MMA fighter.

Don't do it...unless you're in no hurry to become effective at fighting. If you're in a hurry, stick to your orthodox base-styles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E

Ain't Karate--they show no sign of crosstraining.

All this recalls more than one individual who's stated that it's a good idea to train in something quick-to-learn and very aggressive when one is young, while also training in some style that takes longer to get the hang of initially, but will serve well when one no longer has the strength to train the quick-to-learn, aggressive style. Not necessarily agreeing with this view (don't really know what to make of it, truth be told), just describing it.

No, no, I agree with him. He's onto something. I think it's just the shotokan.

Don't do it...unless you're in no hurry to become effective at fighting. If you're in a hurry, stick to your orthodox base-styles

don't worry, i was joking. i might try to use one of those sweeps in sparring though...


Ain't Karate--they show no sign of crosstraining.

it isn't karate because they aren't cross training? i don't understand.

don't worry, i was joking.

YOU WERE? I HAD NO IDEA!!!


it isn't karate because they aren't cross training? i don't understand.

Ohhh...some minor thing about Karate and crosstraining, scrawled by somebody-or-other one this thread, post #116.

nah, karate sucks.

i'm gunna drop the BJJ/MT, go join a shotokan school and become an MMA fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E

Ain't Karate--they show no sign of crosstraining.

Put me down in the "I don't get it" camp.


Lyoto Machida - Karate

Lyoto fighting a regional karate championship, in Brazil (Amazon), 2005.
Lyoto Vs Negão
-Video description

I would really like this GSP vaseline thing to just go away. Unfortunately, BJ is going to turn this into a ****-storm, and there will be some real backlash to it. Give it about a week for the **** to hit the fan; it's gonna be ugly.


I also hate to say it, but if I was BJ, I'd be righteously pissed too. Greasin is cheatin, straight up.

Does anyone else find it ironic that Lyoto Machida is the only one on the entire event who actually finished his opponent?

Only every smartass in the world who has a platform to comment on the fight, including Frank Mir.

GSP finished BJ as well, Lyoto was just the first one with a finish.

I just realized my buddy John Howard, is the John Howard that fought at this thing. Doomsday is fire...I grappled him once, cracked my elbow real nice for me. Doesn't click any more, but it took more than a year to stop doing so.

And he got fight of the night! To win his first fight in the UFC must have been amazing enough, but to then be told he's getting paid over 10 times what he'd been promised...everyone at Wai Kru is pretty stoked, the guys who went out to Vegas to watch him must have gone nuts.