So has Judo finally completely cast aside Kano's teachings?

That's just silly. Kano's rule against using Judo to earn money has been ignored so often at this point, and even by his prominent students back in the day, that it stopped being relevant or even thought about long ago. More importantly, there were a lot more important and relevant teachings of Kano that are still included in Judo, and in fact are integral to the way Judo is taught, that they probably won't ever be cast aside.

Thank you for proving my point.

So has Judo finally completely cast aside Kano's teachings?
My thoughts exactly. Judo is already filled with people who don't care about learning judo, and simply focus on learning to win judo competitions (traditional judo vs sport judo). These increased monetary rewards can only encourage more sport judoka, creating more people who rely on referees, weight classes, active stalling (like grip fighting, and butt flopping), and fractions of points for victory.

I want to see more traditional judoka... people who are 5'2" like Kano and can easily throw people who are 6'2" with perfect control, and don't spend half the match fighting for 'their grip.'

I want to see judo tournaments adapt for modern times without forgetting the principles they were founded on. Common attire like jeans and t shirts instead of 2" thick pajamas, BJJ accepted instead of discouraged, no weight categories, and points awarded based on proper kuzushi, tai sabaki, efficiency, and control. Too bad this is just wishful thinking at best (and pointless ranting at worst).

Now is a great time to go teach English in Japan if you are a competitive Judoka fresh out of college.

My thoughts exactly. Judo is already filled with people who don't care about learning judo, and simply focus on learning to win judo competitions (traditional judo vs sport judo). These increased monetary rewards can only encourage more sport judoka, creating more people who rely on referees, weight classes, active stalling (like grip fighting, and butt flopping), and fractions of points for victory.

I want to see more traditional judoka... people who are 5'2" like Kano and can easily throw people who are 6'2" with perfect control, and don't spend half the match fighting for 'their grip.'

I want to see judo tournaments adapt for modern times without forgetting the principles they were founded on. Common attire like jeans and t shirts instead of 2" thick pajamas, BJJ accepted instead of discouraged, no weight categories, and points awarded based on proper kuzushi, tai sabaki, efficiency, and control. Too bad this is just wishful thinking at best (and pointless ranting at worst).

It's one of the things I think about since I've had the discussion on this board about BJJ as well. Usually, one of the solutions used to avoid this in BJJ-Submission Grappling is the use of submission only rules. With regards to Judo, you can have 3 ippon matches. Now my knowledge of all the intricacies of Judo rules are limited but basically, you have to get that perfect throw to obtain ippon and thereby win the match. Make it three. Also, you can make it so that at least two ippons are by throw so you don't get any of us filthy, dirty, BJJers coming in and going submission apeshit on the other competitors.

This will allow for the skillset of Judo to show and not the BS tourny tactics that you normally see that you mentioned above. It would also allow an opportunity for participants to get more time on the mats attempting throws instead of stalling.

I'm sure, due to the nature of the current Judo rules, the intricacies will need to be worked out to accomplish that goal. All it requires, really, is people deciding to do it a different way because they are tired of the status quo. If it wasn't for people doing that for BJJ, we probably wouldn't have Submission Grappling and Submission Only Grappling.

I don't see pro judo taking the sport in a new direction anytime soon. BJJ is liberal compared to judo, but still stagnated despite the presence of a strong pro element.


Common attire like jeans and t shirts instead of 2" thick pajamas

This would be silly. T shirts rip. Can you still choke with them? Yes. Can you use jacket sleeves for grips? Yes. However, unless you want to replace your street clothes after every session, you're gonna want a gi.

Thank you for proving my point.

Alright, since I apparently walked right into whatever it was, care to actually say your point?

Common attire like jeans and t shirts instead of 2" thick pajamasOkay, a little thought experiment for you. Imagine common street clothes that have been adapted to withstand the rigours of grappling, and with any features removed that could prove dangerous to practitioners, such as belt loops and pockets (no one likes broken fingers).

Don't know about you, but the picture in my mind right now is a fucking gi. Go figure.

Edit: although I'm all for practising no-gi Judo. I've tried it a few times, and frankly I fucking suck at it.

My thoughts exactly. Judo is already filled with people who don't care about learning judo, and simply focus on learning to win judo competitions (traditional judo vs sport judo). These increased monetary rewards can only encourage more sport judoka, creating more people who rely on referees, weight classes, active stalling (like grip fighting, and butt flopping), and fractions of points for victory.

i don't see how money will change how people train, unless you change the rules.

all sport styles evolve according to the rules they go by.


I want to see more traditional judoka... people who are 5'2" like Kano and can easily throw people who are 6'2" with perfect control, and don't spend half the match fighting for 'their grip.'

people who stall are only taking advantage of the rules. they'll do whatever they can to get the win, regardless of whether or not the crowd finds it entertaining. but if you do something like penalise the fighters for stalling you might get the results you're after.

as for the size thing, there is a very good reason for weight divisions - size is an advantage. unless the smaller fighter is of a higher skill level than their opponent, they're less likely to win. and tournaments are designed so that only fighters of similar skill levels are pitted against each other. so you'll hardly ever see that situation.


I want to see judo tournaments adapt for modern times without forgetting the principles they were founded on. Common attire like jeans and t shirts instead of 2" thick pajamas, BJJ accepted instead of discouraged, no weight categories, and points awarded based on proper kuzushi, tai sabaki, efficiency, and control. Too bad this is just wishful thinking at best (and pointless ranting at worst).

i think that the gi is a pretty much analogous to the kinds of clothing people wear in winter especially, and it doesn't tear easily which makes it practical to train in.

one thing i'd like to see in judo is more ground time.

I don't see pro judo taking the sport in a new direction anytime soon. BJJ is liberal compared to judo, but still stagnated despite the presence of a strong pro element.

what do you mean by "stagnated"?

All gi rule sets and federation no gi rule sets are holding the sport back. Arbitrary restrictions that are not related to relevant specialization are detrimental to any martial arts system.

All gi rule sets and federation no gi rule sets are holding the sport back.

how exactly?

I didn't see anything that hinted at unlimited newaza. I think people are jumping to conclusions.

In the last paragraph of the first link provided it says:

BORDER LINE-RULES:
All the actions are valid and may continue (No Mate) as long as either contestant has some part of their body touching the contest area.

As I am a relative noobie, how should this be translated?

they're defining "out of bounds" as "entirely out of bounds," rather than "barely out of bounds."

Yeah. Before you'd get penalised if you initiated an attack while your opponent was out of bounds (and you weren't, obviously), now they're still fair game.

Edit: for clarification, the rule is mostly applicable while standing. Shitty newaza won't change until shitty refs are told explicitly to allow more time, going out of bounds isn't really the problem.

how exactly?

The rules on leg locks, bicep slicers and the like. For instance, my spider guard techniques have ended with a bicep slicer submission for years. Its illegal though so I have to go out of my way to take the slicer OFF.