Given that the Bible is the sole basis for Christian beliefs, it would follow that a Christian that neither understands the Bible, nor is inclined to delve into it in order to understand it, isn't a Christian at all. It seems to be a weak belief - "I believe, though I don't even have the benefit of reliance on the Bible to support my belief; I believe "just because" and nothing else." That's not much better than the rationale a small child presents for believing in an imaginary friend that only they can see... At least a Bible-thumping Christian can attempt to support their belief by their magic book (though, much like being unable to use a word in its own definition, using the Bible as evidence for Christianity is a circular justification at very best...).

If a Christian doesn't understand the Bible, how can they argue the validity of their belief? As has been said before by other freethinkers, reading the Bible is perhaps the single largest source of atheism throughout history. More Christians should do it... :read2:

All I was stating is that there are a lot of things in the Bible that I don't understand. So if I don't understand everything, then I can't say that I fully understand it. However, there are a lot of things in this world that I don't understand. Like physics. But that doesn't mean I think they are wrong. I'm just admitting that there are things in the Bible and the world that my mind don't comprehend.

Besides I don't have to argue the validity of my belief. All I have to do is believe. I will account for my beliefs in the end.

One cool thing is that if I am wrong and I die and fade off into oblivion, then oh well. No harm no foul. I still lived a good life. However, if I am right, I go to heaven. So to me, I'm playing a pretty safe game. Win, win situation:angel7:.

OMG people beliefs in teh God, lol. Thanks for another thread on the same crap again.

If you don't want these threads to appear, the solution is simple. Don't contribute to them.

One cool thing is that if I am wrong and I die and fade off into oblivion, then oh well. No harm no foul. I still lived a good life. However, if I am right, I go to heaven. So to me, I'm playing a pretty safe game. Win, win situation:angel7:.

You are far from playing a safe game. If you picked the wrong god out of Krishna, Zeus, Thor, Allah, Baal, Wotan and millions of other gods that could exist and as long as the Buddhists aren't right and you don't come back as a slug for not being enlightened enough statistically you can actually expect to go to hell. (or become a slug.) Even if you win the afterlife lottery and pick the right god and the right denomination he'd better not take offense to your belief based on "playing the odds" and even if you do make it to heaven on infinity-to-one odds probability virtually guarantees that you'll be the only person there.

Diesel tke gets hit by a bus and floats up into the sky. He knocks on a golden door in the clouds and steps into a vast empty room with a giant man with a white beard and wizard hat sitting on a huge throne. The giant man looks over to Diesel and says "You know what? I actually expected a much bigger turnout."

All I was stating is that there are a lot of things in the Bible that I don't understand. So if I don't understand everything, then I can't say that I fully understand it. However, there are a lot of things in this world that I don't understand. Like physics. But that doesn't mean I think they are wrong. I'm just admitting that there are things in the Bible and the world that my mind don't comprehend.
When I hear things like this, I find myself thinking. Wouldn't it be great if we had some sort of system that could tell us what is real and not real, what is true and what is not true.

Then I realize, we do its called science.


One cool thing is that if I am wrong and I die and fade off into oblivion, then oh well. No harm no foul. I still lived a good life. However, if I am right, I go to heaven. So to me, I'm playing a pretty safe game. Win, win situation
You have to understand sir, the thing that this is telling me is that your entire belief system is founded and maintained on fear.

If there was no heaven, no hell would you still worship your god?

What about non Christians, homosexuals, people who have not gone to church enough or Christians who are not evangelical. If these people have lived otherwise "good" lives, do they still deserve to burn for eternity in hell?

Also sir, if your definition of a good life is what is written in the bible, I hope you have stoned to death at least one person who has worked on the Sabbath and at least one woman who was not a virgin on her wedding day.

What about non Christians, homosexuals, people who have not gone to church enough or Christians who are not evangelical. If these people have lived otherwise "good" lives, do they still deserve to burn for eternity in hell?

yep. they didn't accept jesus as their saviour.

One cool thing is that if I am wrong and I die and fade off into oblivion, then oh well. No harm no foul. I still lived a good life. However, if I am right, I go to heaven. So to me, I'm playing a pretty safe game. Win, win situation:angel7:.


Well, unless you chose the wrong sect of Christianity and burn in hell forever.

Or unless Islam is the true religion and you suffer in much the same way.

Or any other religion is true. Perhaps you may end up naked and trembling before Wotan!

You are also assuming there is an eternal heaven. However if there is an afterlife, itself an assumption, there could be an infinite amount of possibilities.

Not to mention you are again assuming heaven is a reward for belief. Heaven could possibly be a reward for owning an even number of forks. Oh wait that doesn't make sense. God (another assumption) must have some human-like rationality and morality (another two assumptions). Then where does rewarding belief fit in?

So getting into heaven depends on a lot more than just betting on the right faith. I'm betting on the even number of forks for entry. BRB counting forks.

Virus, we get it: you're an athiest. You can settle down now.

yep. they didn't accept jesus as their saviour.

I have been thinking about this, when it really comes down to it, Jesus is a fascist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist#Nationalism


Fascism is typified by totalitarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism) attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic, by way of a strong, single-party government for enacting laws and a strong militia or police force for enforcing them through threat of reprisal against dissidents or through political violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_violence) directed at opponents.[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist#cite_note-78)

Fascism also tends to promote principles of masculine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculine) heroism, militarism, and discipline; and rejects cultural pluralism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_pluralism) and multiculturalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism).[95] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist#cite_note-94)

The Fascist government in Italy banned abortion and literature on birth control in 1926 and declared abortion and distribution of birth control literature as crimes against the state.[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist#cite_note-88) A year later, the Fascist government began the "Battle for Births" in 1927, a social engineering policy aimed at increasing the population of Italians.

The Italian Fascist government declared homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality) illegal in Italy in 1931.[99] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist#cite_note-98)
So really, when it comes down to it, we have one person / organisation telling us completely how to live our lives.

That is not too uncommon in itself, however if we chose not to follow these guidelines set by the bible / god, we burn in hell for eternity.

This is a very similar system to Nazi Germany,
some people were considered beyond redemption and were killed no matter what,
A great deal of Germans were given a choice, to join the Nazi regime or to be persecuted and killed.


Its historical significance lies mainly in its responsibility for escalating political tensions in Europe by its expansionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansionist) foreign policy which resulted in World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), its occupation of most of Europe during the war, and its commission of large-scale crimes against humanity, such as the persecution and mass-murder of millions of Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew), minorities, and dissidents in the genocide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide) known as the Holocaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust). [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_germany#cite_note-3)
So when I think about it, Jesus is a Fascist Dictator and Heaven and Hell are Gods "final solution".

I don’t want any part of this religion.

Libertad - that's a pretty strong statement and stance to take on Christianity. Every religion has its whacky beliefs/requirements/'rules'.
My belief in my belief stems from being raised within its way and the fact that it weaves itself into my life, my ideals, my choices. I'm actually not sure how to separate my religious beliefs from who I am and I don't even consider myself quite religious for that matter.



You are far from playing a safe game. If you picked the wrong god out of Krishna, Zeus, Thor, Allah, Baal, Wotan and millions of other gods that could exist and as long as the Buddhists aren't right and you don't come back as a slug for not being enlightened enough statistically you can actually expect to go to hell. (or become a slug.) Even if you win the afterlife lottery and pick the right god and the right denomination he'd better not take offense to your belief based on "playing the odds" and even if you do make it to heaven on infinity-to-one odds probability virtually guarantees that you'll be the only person there.


Is that supposed to scare me? Life is about taking risks and as the saying goes, nothing in this world is certain but death and taxes.

Libertad - that's a pretty strong statement and stance to take on Christianity. Every religion has its whacky beliefs/requirements/'rules'.
Not all of them will land you in Hell for not following their beliefs/requirements/'rules'.


My belief in my belief stems from being raised within its way and the fact that it weaves itself into my life, my ideals, my choices. I'm actually not sure how to separate my religious beliefs from who I am and I don't even consider myself quite religious for that matter.
I completely agree, I think the person I am today, I am because of the way I was raised and the social situations I have been put into.

The things that I believe are right and just are going to be different from anyone elses opinion of what is right and just, that's just a part of being human.

If your interpretation of Jesus and the Bible shape the way you live your life, and you are happy with the way you live your life, then that's fantastic.

If you sit down and read the bible, I am sure you will find great bits of advice on how to live your life, just like any book, however you will also find some parts which I quite strongly diagree with.

Libertad - that's a pretty strong statement and stance to take on Christianity. Every religion has its whacky beliefs/requirements/'rules'.

Every religion is wacky beliefs/requirements/rules.




My belief in my belief stems from being raised within its way and the fact that it weaves itself into my life, my ideals, my choices. I'm actually not sure how to separate my religious beliefs from who I am and I don't even consider myself quite religious for that matter.

So basically you believe what you do because of childhood indoctrination. Is that a good reason to believe something? What would you think of someone who claimed to believe that Elvis is alive, and when asked why said that he was brought up to believe that Elvis is alive and that Elvis weaves himself into his life and ideals and that he couldn't possibly separate his beliefs in Elvis from who he is.



Is that supposed to scare me? Life is about taking risks and as the saying goes, nothing in this world is certain but death and taxes.

It's not supposed to scare anyone. It's a demonstration of the absurdity of Pascal's Wager.

By the way, I consider the claim that Elvis is alive to be less ridiculous than the claims of the Abrahamic religions. At least Elvis was a real person and people do sometimes fake their own death.

You deny jesus existed at all? I think he was a real person....just one that was lying about being the son of god.

And libertad, when did jesus ever use political violence? Interesting post aside.

So virus, obviously you are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. But in the end, who cares? I can believe what I want in this world and you can believe what you want. We can still coexist. I always see all these threads you start with the same thing on there. What is the big deal?

Are you posting these things to try to convince people that their beliefs systems are wrong and everything they thing is true is actually false?

If so that is cool. So what is the solution? Everyone in the world admit that religion is fake and doesn't mean anything. Then we can go around without morals and do what we want. If I don't like someone I can kill them. If I want 40 wife's, I can have them. I can be a good person if I want or a bad one. We can let anarchy rain. Or we can follow a government until we don't like it.

I'm not saying that religion is the only thing keeping this from happening. But I know that it keeps some people from doing it.

So what are you getting at here?

When I hear things like this, I find myself thinking. Wouldn't it be great if we had some sort of system that could tell us what is real and not real, what is true and what is not true.

Then I realize, we do its called science.


You have to understand sir, the thing that this is telling me is that your entire belief system is founded and maintained on fear.

If there was no heaven, no hell would you still worship your god?

What about non Christians, homosexuals, people who have not gone to church enough or Christians who are not evangelical. If these people have lived otherwise "good" lives, do they still deserve to burn for eternity in hell?

Also sir, if your definition of a good life is what is written in the bible, I hope you have stoned to death at least one person who has worked on the Sabbath and at least one woman who was not a virgin on her wedding day.

Yeah well if science can prove that thins are real, then they can prove what is not real. Science has not yet proven that God is not real. So keep working on that and let me know what you figure out.

There is nothing in the Bible that says you go to hell if you are: homosexual, don't go to church enough, or are not evangelical. Don't know where you got that from. Christianity is not a religion of works. It is a religion of belief. The idea is that if you believe you will act right because you genuinely want to.

I do believe in the Bible, however that whole stoning thing was in the old testament. Then you know that Jesus guy came and stopped it. Nice try though.