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HappyOldGuy
10/09/2008 11:45am,
FWIW, Here is something that helped me. We did a drill where we jumped for height or distance into rolling breakfalls on the crash pad. Up to that point I had had a hard time relaxing into falls, especially hard ones onto the back (like Ippon Seoi Nage). But the combination of going for really high and hard falls and the safety of the crash pad really helped me to relax and learn to enjoy flying.

We don't normally use the pad, but that one time was really helpful for me.

JudOWNED
10/09/2008 11:50am,
KaBar and Pauli have ipponed the correct! (Yeah, I said it.) Talk to your instructor, and it certainly does sound like you are afraid to fall.

KO'd N DOA
10/09/2008 11:58am,
Here is what I was taught about Ukemi.


Training is a contract between Tori and Uke, Tori is responsible for the throw, Uke is responsible for the landing.

You have got to fix it. My hips still feel the strain of heavy throws, especially when it rains. Make sure you master it early on...to keep up your end of the bargin.

han090
10/09/2008 1:14pm,
Here is what I was taught about Ukemi.



You have got to fix it. My hips still feel the strain of heavy throws, especially when it rains. Make sure you master it early on...to keep up your end of the bargin.No offense meant, but that's not very helpful at all. All you're telling me is to get good at falling...which is obviously what i'm trying to do.

hpr
10/09/2008 1:26pm,
I know this is a stupid question.. But why breath out specifically? It forces you to relax? I don't get thrown that often (small gym, lots of guys == few stand up sessions) so don't know if I do that on reflex already. I'll have to keep that in mind.

1point2
10/09/2008 1:36pm,
Breathing out during a fall is a preventative measure.

If you keep the air in your chest, and land on your back, you can get the wind knocked out of you (diaphragm spasm). Just like a good solar plexus shot.

I know I'm entering crazy-kiai-hocus-pocus-karateka territory, but bear with me. Envision a balloon filled up, held closed by your fingers, still untied. Lay the balloon on the floor and stomp your foot on it. If you hold your fingers tightly (trying to keep your breath, not exhaling), the balloon takes a hit and may burst. If you keep your finger grip loose (kiai-ing or breathing out as you break the fall), the air will naturally be expelled, and the balloon is fine to refill.

I am not in any way suggesting that your diaphragm will burst or any BS like that, it's just an analogy to visualize getting slammed.

ignatzami
10/09/2008 2:03pm,
Two points to look for:

1) when your getting thrown with a forward throw make sure your not dragging your hand, or trying to hold on to your opponents gi. If this is happening it makes tori throw harder, making the throw more painful.

2) make sure your opponent is helping you to land properly, i.e. pulling up on your sleeve at the end, as opposed to dumping you hard. Good break falls are 80% your job, and 20% your opponents job. This took me a long time to get right.

Also, as an aside, DO ROLLING BREAKFALLS!!! do them all the time, on any surface you can find, both rolling to standing and rolling and staying in a side break fall.

KO'd N DOA
10/09/2008 2:10pm,
No offense meant, but that's not very helpful at all. All you're telling me is to get good at falling...which is obviously what i'm trying to do.

That advice is why I pity you so much, that is all I got at the beginning. And only if the other advice by others given before fails, then read below...

When I teach breakfalls or ukemi, the idea is always to breath out, tuck the chin in, and know your space in the air. It is difficult to explain on a forum post like this.

If you are in Randori 2 weeks in to training, then you will be hurt. During the class you will be doing compliant and semi-compliant and eventually non compliant throws. When you realize you are being thrown, you will have to at some point give up fighting the throw and instead go with the throw. Not every throw has to be defended like your giving up olympic gold. Sometimes you are beat, (especially 2 weeks in)

Absorb the fall on your side, not on your back, and your legs will take it. If you take it on your back, you will have to learn to use your feet and shoulders to absorb the impact. Watch an advance class fall, or even on internet. (...shudder...) If you still get hurt after after all of this and can't learn how to do it properly then I will give you the "absolutely worst advice you will ever get on BULLSHIDO" and the antithesis of everything most hold dear. (*take in a free Aikido class*)

Of course now I will be kicked out of Newbie town for trolling noobs, over this. My Sacrifice for you.

However, At my Judo and BJJ classes it is usually the former or cross training Aikidoka who have the smoothest and most pollished ukemi, and that is because they throw themselves all the time, all class long, and spend more time in the warm up making sure eveyone can fall. Then you will have to be deprogrammed how not to be compliant, and how not to look like an Aikido during warm up, but that is another thread. Remember and this is very important - Of course I said 1 free class. Only 1.

Whats the magic number? One. Then back to Judo you go.

Kyduh
10/09/2008 2:58pm,
Kyduh: Practicing a fall from an overextended leg sweep sounds like a good idea. It'll give a realistic fall, with some force (since the only breakfalling we practice is from a crouched stance). Unfortunately, the only problem is i don't have much time before class to practice, as the mats are only set up immediatly before class. If I get there early though, i can get a few minutes in while everyone's still changing. I'll definitely try.Do it at home, like shadowboxing. Before I knew anyone in my college (and I didn't have a roomate) I would stay up in my room and just do breakfalls and getups.

han090
10/09/2008 10:30pm,
That advice is why I pity you so much, that is all I got at the beginning. And only if the other advice by others given before fails, then read below...

When I teach breakfalls or ukemi, the idea is always to breath out, tuck the chin in, and know your space in the air. It is difficult to explain on a forum post like this.

If you are in Randori 2 weeks in to training, then you will be hurt. During the class you will be doing compliant and semi-compliant and eventually non compliant throws. When you realize you are being thrown, you will have to at some point give up fighting the throw and instead go with the throw. Not every throw has to be defended like your giving up olympic gold. Sometimes you are beat, (especially 2 weeks in)

Absorb the fall on your side, not on your back, and your legs will take it. If you take it on your back, you will have to learn to use your feet and shoulders to absorb the impact. Watch an advance class fall, or even on internet. (...shudder...) If you still get hurt after after all of this and can't learn how to do it properly then I will give you the "absolutely worst advice you will ever get on BULLSHIDO" and the antithesis of everything most hold dear. (*take in a free Aikido class*)

Of course now I will be kicked out of Newbie town for trolling noobs, over this. My Sacrifice for you.

However, At my Judo and BJJ classes it is usually the former or cross training Aikidoka who have the smoothest and most pollished ukemi, and that is because they throw themselves all the time, all class long, and spend more time in the warm up making sure eveyone can fall. Then you will have to be deprogrammed how not to be compliant, and how not to look like an Aikido during warm up, but that is another thread. Remember and this is very important - Of course I said 1 free class. Only 1.

Whats the magic number? One. Then back to Judo you go. Again, i'm not in Randori. This is just from compliant throws, i'm not even trying to defend from them. As someone said before, i think it's an issue of me being afraid to fall. As soon as i'm falling my brain just throws my arms down, and i hurt my wrists or my shoulder (which i can handle, but it's still wrong), or I just spazz out, and end up landing completely wrong.

I've had some issues with my lower back before judo though, and after talking it over with the one of the judo teachers today, i'm gonna go to the doctor, and make sure everything is alright. (i'm actually sore right now just sitting up, and sorer when i use my lower back at all....which is most movements really). The College doctor is free, and I'm worried because it's actually my spine itself that's tender aswell. And...my spine is pretty important to me!

I'll conisder the aikido class. I do have a dislike for the art, but it'd definitely be worth it to learn how to fall right for judo. Besides, all martial arts (and all sports for that matter) are free at my college anyway.

Thanks for the advice!

One of the teachers was talking to me at the end of class today, and told me I was a really good student, because i was always willing to take in their advice, and I was really enthuasiastic, and kept coming back, despite my clearly getting hurt. I was quite glad of that, because i asked not to be thrown in todays class, because i was still too sore from tuesday's, and I didn't want to give the impression i'm just being a whiny bitch.

I still did the warm up, throws, ground free sparring (which i LOVED, even though it was obvious the experienced ones they were going easy on me), and warm downs. Thankfully, we didn't do much throwing today.