...I see this problem in the MT class everytime I watch it (at Renzo) they hold the pads almost 45° angle and hence people develop a habit of kicking upwards wich leads to slow, powerless kicks with a good chance that you catch and elbow and break something in your foot/leg.

Actually, holding the pads at a 45° angle is correct for Muay Thai. This is how the professional Thai gyms hold their pads for their fighters. I obviously disagree with this causing someone's kicks to be slow and powerless, and while I understand the concern about catching an elbow, this actually occuring is rarely the case.



Moderator Note: Split off from kick shield thread

Actually, holding the pads at a 45° angle is correct for Muay Thai. This is how the professional Thai gyms hold their pads for their fighters. I obviously disagree with this causing someone's kicks to be slow and powerless, and while I understand the concern about catching an elbow, this actually occuring is rarely the case.

sorry for any derail, but i noticed this when i was in thailand. i wondered about how this seems to go against the "turn the hip over" mantra of muay thai kicking, where holding the pads more upright would actually encourage the kicker to turn their hip.

do thai gyms ever hold the pads more vertically? is that type of hip turn concentrated on more during bag work?

I know that the MT people hold pads like that but this does not negate the point it develops a habit of kicking upwards. I had this discussion with a lot of MT/San da people the best way to convince them is to give them a shield and tell them to kick it with their lead leg, no steping allowed, just kick it at hip hight. And then I show them how I would kick it.
I don't say kicking like the thays can't be effective but I say you should considder kicking different when you kick above the hip. For lowkicks I would take the thay version over the hip rotation almost every day but for kicking to the lower ribs or even head I tell you that kicking like this is NOT the best way to go. Can it be used? Sure but it is not the best option!

Edit: Ming loyalist made my point before me.

I must admit I've never understood why they hold the thai pads at an angle. I've always preferred it when people hold the pads straight so I have a nicer surface to kick.

So what's the purpose?

The angle is to protect the pad holder and to make you kick faster on double kicks etc. If you can actually throw a hard Thai kick you can easily hurt your partner through vertical pads. Your form perfection and power training should be done on a heavy bag. Pads are generally for conditioning.

That makes sense. I've always just met the kick with the pads, though with people that kick pretty hard I have found that their kicks will cut right through the pad and hurt my arms.

I guess this isn't really a problem for f4n4n and his TKD class (ooooohh!)

The other reason for holding the pads at an angle is the ENCOURAGE fighters to kick UPWARDS!

If you hold your pads vertical, this will start to encourage the fighter to swing his leg outwards. This is what makes the kick slower and less powerful. A proper Muay Thai roundhouse kicks follows an upwards trajectory UNTIL the point of impact... that is when the hip rolls over and the kicks cuts across its target.

As an example, I teach novices to throw their kicks with their shoulder against a wall. If they are throwing a right kick, they stand with their right shoulder against a wall. They have to kick straight upwards until they reach the target, then roll their hip over. Otherwise, the tendency is for you to swing your kicking leg out to the side and bring it the long way around, which is slower, less powerful, and much easier to defend (you can see it coming from a mile away)

And as someone else pointed out, the angle does help cut down the risk of injury from someone missing their target.

The other reason for holding the pads at an angle is the ENCOURAGE fighters to kick UPWARDS!

If you hold your pads vertical, this will start to encourage the fighter to swing his leg outwards. This is what makes the kick slower and less powerful. A proper Muay Thai roundhouse kicks follows an upwards trajectory UNTIL the point of impact... that is when the hip rolls over and the kicks cuts across its target.

As an example, I teach novices to throw their kicks with their shoulder against a wall. If they are throwing a right kick, they stand with their right shoulder against a wall. They have to kick straight upwards until they reach the target, then roll their hip over. Otherwise, the tendency is for you to swing your kicking leg out to the side and bring it the long way around, which is slower, less powerful, and much easier to defend (you can see it coming from a mile away)

And as someone else pointed out, the angle does help cut down the risk of injury from someone missing their target.

I'd like to see video/photos of this drill you speak of.

I'm sure I have video of it somewhere, but it'll take me awhile to locate it, convert it, and upload it to YouTube

OK, this is the only video footage I have of the drill. The film clip only shows me demonstrate the move once, then the rest of the footage shows my students butchering the drill.... But at least you can get the idea.

YouTube - Narrow Roundhouse Kick (MuayThai) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM5QDIrhN0o)

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this thread is a perfect example of why i love this site.

Holding them vertical hurts my elbows, holding them at angle doesn't. So I'm a fan of it. I don't think all that many people drift upward because of it.

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I think it's working now......

Hehe i'd probably end up swinging my hand back and breaking it on the wall if i did that drill. I take it you teach your students to not do the hand swing?

+rep for putting the video up, don't feel afraid to put some up more often!

We don't teach them NOT to swing, but we teach them to use a shortened swing.

I've got tons of video footage, but I don't like to put a lot of it up because I have a tendency to talk way too much rather than simply demonstrate a drill.... That's one of the reasons I have so many of my training sessions video taped is to try to encourage me to break the habit.