"We're supposed to pretend we're punching people?"

Please tell me he didn't have a black belt.

First point I make with parents of new students is, "There ain't gonna be no 8 / 10 year old Black Belts. You have to be at least 16, before I will even consider it!"

I have been offered to promote Brown Belts from other styles to Black for a price, but I told Mommy it wasn't enough!

First point I make with parents of new students is, "There ain't gonna be no 8 / 10 year old Black Belts. You have to be at least 16, before I will even consider it!"

I have been offered to promote Brown Belts from other styles to Black for a price, but I told Mommy it wasn't enough!

That's the way it should be with kids. Let them advance with the understanding that the BB doesn't come till you get a certain age and have met all necessary requirements. Parents will have to live with that and it will give the kids incentive to stay at their dojos and keep training till its BB test time.

Parents will have to live with that and it will give the kids incentive to stay at their dojos and keep training till its BB test time.

Indeed. Problem is, there is a lack of good parenting these days, just a bunch of parents who are more childish than their own children. The "my kid has to be better than yours because I want him to go to Harvard just like me" mentality has no place in martial arts. My school just had their teachers' meeting and we voted to eliminate the junior black belt rank, largely because of this. So, the 6 kids (which was 5 too many, based on their maturity) who have gotten it in the two years since the rank was implemented will be allowed to keep their belt, but will no longer be called "sensei" and will no longer be given adults (even white belts) to teach. They will have to spend their time reviewing- not learning new kata, as previously. The new age for adult black belt will be 16 (up from 18), and we are considering further age requirements (i.e. 12 to reach purple belt) but we shall see.

It's not the ideal situation, but I think the school is at least slowly moving in the right direction. When I started at the school 7 years ago, it was unheard of to have a parent get into instructors' faces and demand that their kid get ranked. Schools need to grow a set of balls and say no, even at the risk of losing a dollar. Right before I got my black belt this past August, some adults and I were left to the "care" of a 12 year old who had no idea how to run a five minute lesson. He ended up "teaching" us how to do an uppercut- wrong. The sad thing was, in our group was a former professional boxer. We organized all the adults together and said if there aren't massive changes, we're all leaving. Most of the adults also had children in the kids' class, and threatened to pull them out too. That got the idiots in charge to pay attention.

I am still considering leaving the school. Finances and surgery won't let me for another six months, but I'm shopping around. I'm not afraid to start all over again if it means I can start learning again and not teaching these brats.

First point I make with parents of new students is, "There ain't gonna be no 8 / 10 year old Black Belts. You have to be at least 16, before I will even consider it!"

I have been offered to promote Brown Belts from other styles to Black for a price, but I told Mommy it wasn't enough!


Now, that's the stuff right there.... if this mentality spread to oh say....

mimsy fucking MA Mom parentworld(tm)

Then the McDojo would be dead in the water...

Which would be good, accept of course bullshido would be much quieter...

Indeed. Problem is, there is a lack of good parenting these days, just a bunch of parents who are more childish than their own children. The "my kid has to be better than yours because I want him to go to Harvard just like me" mentality has no place in martial arts. My school just had their teachers' meeting and we voted to eliminate the junior black belt rank, largely because of this. So, the 6 kids (which was 5 too many, based on their maturity) who have gotten it in the two years since the rank was implemented will be allowed to keep their belt, but will no longer be called "sensei" and will no longer be given adults (even white belts) to teach. They will have to spend their time reviewing- not learning new kata, as previously. The new age for adult black belt will be 16 (up from 18), and we are considering further age requirements (i.e. 12 to reach purple belt) but we shall see.

It's not the ideal situation, but I think the school is at least slowly moving in the right direction. When I started at the school 7 years ago, it was unheard of to have a parent get into instructors' faces and demand that their kid get ranked. Schools need to grow a set of balls and say no, even at the risk of losing a dollar. Right before I got my black belt this past August, some adults and I were left to the "care" of a 12 year old who had no idea how to run a five minute lesson. He ended up "teaching" us how to do an uppercut- wrong. The sad thing was, in our group was a former professional boxer. We organized all the adults together and said if there aren't massive changes, we're all leaving. Most of the adults also had children in the kids' class, and threatened to pull them out too. That got the idiots in charge to pay attention.

I am still considering leaving the school. Finances and surgery won't let me for another six months, but I'm shopping around. I'm not afraid to start all over again if it means I can start learning again and not teaching these brats.


That sounds like a definite move to the right direction. Unfortunately, the majority of parents don't have a real clue as what MAS are all about. Most of the perception ( mine included for a time ) that what kids learned in their dojos was the real deal whether it was Karate, TKD or the many forms that are offered to kids.
So if the child got their BB, wow you have the R34l know how on SD and how to fight which is farthest from the truth. Kids and parents are setup in this and the kids are really left holding the bag thinking I have a BB but in reality , they have just a belt that doesn't mean anything in the streets and no real fighting abilities to even speak of.

There really needs to be a movement starting with whatever MA governing bodies there are in regulating MA schools so this type BS from a lot of dojos will stop. I know that's asking a lot and in today's climate of people wanting things instantly, that;s a tall order. There are some schools out there that want their kids to be effective and I applaud those schools. It would be nice if the rest took notice and actually cared for the kids instead of just being diploma/ belt mills.

It means they should be able to kick the ass of a full grown, reasonably fit, 6 month BJJ white belt at a bare minimum.



More BJJ nuthuggery. Beating the collective ass's of a bunch of BJJ white belts is no way to judge any martial artist. Get this **** out of here.

I don't think many people realise martial arts is a business. To keep a club open you have to make money. It's all well and good you kiddy haters wanting martial arts for the grown-up's only but are you prepared to put your money were your mouth is? How you'd like the cost of your training to double so that you can say your black belt means a ****?
If you can do it you know it in your heart, belts don't mean anything. Worry about your own training, not some kid's.

I don't think many people realise martial arts is a business. To keep a club open you have to make money. It's all well and good you kiddy haters wanting martial arts for the grown-up's only but are you prepared to put your money were your mouth is? How you'd like the cost of your training to double so that you can say your black belt means a ****?
If you can do it you know it in your heart, belts don't mean anything. Worry about your own training, not some kid's.

I understand MA is a business and the kids pay the bills, plain and simple. Nobody wants kids not to learn martial arts. I have a kid and many on this forum and website have kids of their own. I for myself want a better system where BB's are not just handed out to kids just because they may met some criteria of the dojos. When my kid gets a BB, I want him to be able to fight like a BB and get be able to defend himself and others. How many kids have you seen in the 8 thru 12 yrs old that have a BB that can actually fight ?

Getting a BB never really mattered to me thru the years. I was concerned more about being effective in a fight than any type trophies . People generally don't mind spending more money at a dojo as long as they felt they are getting their monies worth and are actually learining whatever type skills they are wanting to develope. Belts don't mean anhything to me, personally but to kids learning MA's they are visible symbols of accomplishment. I would not take that away from them,but would not give them a BB till they are of age and can really show they can take care of themselves.

Getting a BB never really mattered to me thru the years. I was concerned more about being effective in a fight than any type trophies . People generally don't mind spending more money at a dojo as long as they felt they are getting their monies worth and are actually learining whatever type skills they are wanting to develope. Belts don't mean anhything to me, personally but to kids learning MA's they are visible symbols of accomplishment. I would not take that away from them,but would not give them a BB till they are of age and can really show they can take care of themselves.

I've a 14 year old that couldn't give a **** about belts, he's been there and done that.
He can kick the **** out of pretty much any kid and a hell of a lot of adults ( under most rulesets ) He hasn't graded in nearly 3 years. Doesn't see the point. He trains to get better.
If he gets 'it' then adults should. Belts don't matter. Can you fight? That's what matters.
Why should other people matter to you? **** 'em, just train.

First point I make with parents of new students is, "There ain't gonna be no 8 / 10 year old Black Belts. You have to be at least 16, before I will even consider it!"

I have been offered to promote Brown Belts from other styles to Black for a price, but I told Mommy it wasn't enough!

Oh....so that was a student from your school.

Nice. That's like my school's BB rule.

I don't think many people realise martial arts is a business. To keep a club open you have to make money. It's all well and good you kiddy haters wanting martial arts for the grown-up's only but are you prepared to put your money were your mouth is? How you'd like the cost of your training to double so that you can say your black belt means a ****?
If you can do it you know it in your heart, belts don't mean anything. Worry about your own training, not some kid's.

When those kids are assigned to teach your lessons, and badly at that then it becomes a part of your own training. Look at judo and boxing. These are both cheap as hell despite having no kid black belts because the money comes from the actual sport and from the association. Why can't other martial arts be more like that? BJJ and Muay Thai get away with it because they are in very high demand and in most places there isn't that great a supply, but karate and taekwondo have a huge supply fucking everywhere, and taekwondo (as well as many forms of karate) have huge sporting orgs, so what the **** is their excuse?

I concur, it is a business, and you have to "reward" the new generation of microwave kids. that is why, instead of the four colored belts we had (kyokushin), kempo has something like a dozen or so different colors, yellow, orange, blue, green, purple, fuscia, brown, red, black.
And sometimes with "stripes," yellow belt, yellow with stripe, etc. That way, "sensie" can charge for the belt test, as well as give the kid a kudo for sticking with it. I don't see any problem with giving a kid a black belt, so long as he has earned it. If the kid is proficcient enough at the age of 14-16, then award it to him. a belt should be based on technique, not on age, and to limit someone as they are "underage," is ludicrous, at best. I have seen adults get their black belt, that had no reason having one. As for calling a young black belt a "sensie," get out of here! WTF!? Sensei is the teacher, but I could call a young student a "senpei."

Sadly, having come from Japanese styles, kyokushin-kai, mostly, I recall a young man from Japan (17-20?) that was training with us, good fighter. He got his brown belt, and I took the brown belt that my teacher had had, given to me, and wrapped it around his waist. I started calling him "sempei" and he would say 'no you sempei..." (as I was the older one, by far).

I also visited a tournament once (points), and watched a fighter, that I liked his style. I then went up to him, "where are you training," and he was with a shorinji-kempo club from Japan. I asked him to introduce me, and he took me to his "teacher" and I said, "are you sensei," and the guy said, "no, me just nidan, sensie is in japan." no f'n ****! ;o)

When shihan Joko Ninomiya left Ashihara, he came to SLC. We had a belt test, and our teacher had already promoted a number of his students, and they were to test up, under the new style, Enshin. I declined the belt test, it seemed contrived. We had come from Ashihara to Enshin, and there was no way I would think I was to be promoted in a new style.

I wonder how "old" she was, when she got her black belt? Did she deserve it? Can she "kick a six month BJJ white belt's ass?" What say you, folks!
Karate Girl - Video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1329309/karate_girl/)

When those kids are assigned to teach your lessons, and badly at that then it becomes a part of your own training. Look at judo and boxing. These are both cheap as hell despite having no kid black belts because the money comes from the actual sport and from the association.

Boxing doen't have a belt structure and you do get junior judo black belts.

When those kids are assigned to teach your lessons, and badly at that then it becomes a part of your own training. Look at judo and boxing. These are both cheap as hell despite having no kid black belts because the money comes from the actual sport and from the association. Why can't other martial arts be more like that? BJJ and Muay Thai get away with it because they are in very high demand and in most places there isn't that great a supply, but karate and taekwondo have a huge supply fucking everywhere, and taekwondo (as well as many forms of karate) have huge sporting orgs, so what the **** is their excuse?

If you notice, most of these karate/TKD schools are run by people on a part-time basis. They are not the full time schools. They are open in the evenings only for the kids / adult classes. I don't know if that makes any difference or not in how these schools are run and if they fall under any type MA jurisdictions. I suspect the dojos that teach MT and BJJ which are very high demand can get away with charging pretty much what they want especially if they are the only dojos in the particular area.

I agree that TKD and Karate schools should be cheaper as well, but I think the lack of a overseer for these schools allows them to charge what they want. Any thoughts on this aspect ?