"... As the fist strikes the block it decelerates rapidly, reaching a maximum deceleration of 1,500 meters per second squared for the lower right-hand part of the fist (when the blow was struck with the right fist) and 4,000 meters per second squared for the rest of the fist

Holy crap!!!! That sounds like one nasty difference in acceleration.

Holy crap!!!! That sounds like one nasty difference in acceleration.

Yeah... I'd assume it's a gradient - from highest at the point of impact at the knuckles to lowest at the point of attachment to the radius/ulna. Which begs the question... does that article have pictures to go with it, and if so, are they available?

Also, a thought: wouldn't it have been awesome if they'd done a high-speed X-ray strobe to show the internal structure of the hand and block on impact? I suppose it wouldn't work so well with a fist because of the finger overlap, but for a karate chop it'd be outstanding. So, who wants some free Roentgens? Come on, it's for science!

Yeah, the x-ray strobe thing would have been cool, if they did that. Two things popped in my mind when I first read that acceleration gradient:

1. Man, the human body can take a lot of punishment before even breaking down (there goes the d34dl3y eye gouge).

2. Larry Niven's short sci-fi novel "Neutron Star" where IIRC some protagonists get killed, as they passed too close to a neutron star. As they got too close, the gravitational difference between short distances was strong enough to spread them over the walls of the ship. They would have survived if they have stayed on the ship's centerline (they didn't have the real chun.)

YouTube - Slow Motion Karate Chop Through a Brick! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOLp4doE51Q)

Minor interjection.
I only dashed through it - so apologies and I promise to re-read and with care - but I did notice that the graphic is Shawn Rawcliffe, who I once read of in an interview in COMBAT mag (UK) and he claimed a 2nd Dan in Judo before he switched to WC....

Cheers

Yeah, the x-ray strobe thing would have been cool, if they did that. Two things popped in my mind when I first read that acceleration gradient:

1. Man, the human body can take a lot of punishment before even breaking down (there goes the d34dl3y eye gouge).

2. Larry Niven's short sci-fi novel "Neutron Star" where IIRC some protagonists get killed, as they passed too close to a neutron star. As they got too close, the gravitational difference between short distances was strong enough to spread them over the walls of the ship. They would have survived if they have stayed on the ship's centerline (they didn't have the real chun.)

A bit of a tangent, but have you ever heard of John Paul Stapp? Check out "The Fastest Man On Earth (http://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i5/murphy/murphy0.html)" (despite the "journal" the write-up is in, it's very good).

There is a dissertation for a bachelor's degree that studies the turning kick of TKD. It seems that if one can model that, we can definitely reproduce a boxer's jab and wing chun punch. We'll all have to write grants and get funding from a University. Maybe one of us will earn a degree. I don't need one. I already have two.

http://itfnz.org.nz/ref/essays/Study_of_Turning%20Kick.pdf

That was the link to the dissertation.

didn't have time to read it though... I just thought I would put it out there for people to look at. It should be interesting, considering it was turned in for a BS in... PhysEd from New Zealand back in 1997.

There is a dissertation for a bachelor's degree that studies the turning kick of TKD. It seems that if one can model that, we can definitely reproduce a boxer's jab and wing chun punch. We'll all have to write grants and get funding from a University. Maybe one of us will earn a degree. I don't need one. I already have two.

http://itfnz.org.nz/ref/essays/Study_of_Turning%20Kick.pdf

That was the link to the dissertation.

Heh, speaking of "scientific" martial arts...


Choi (1988) states that Taekwon-Do techniques are based on the laws of physics, and proposes the "theory of power" as a basis for ideal technique.

I wish to propose a competing theory. I hold that the "theory of awesome" (yes, the bold is part of the name) is superior to the "theory of power" in all regards.

I am 0.5 certain this was a good article.


Students were offered a pre packaged system of logic rather than being given analytical tools to test and refine techniques.

This is true of just about every MA, not just _ing _un. Rolling backwards with an open crotch to scoop up your enemy with your groin takes just as much leaping of faith as stepping forward behind chain punches. But I agree it is a _ing _un prerogative that they are "scientific", while other MA are not generally making this claim. Very few MA offer "analytical tools" to develop new material nor test old material. Free sparring is not a scientific method of validation either.

However, In the WT I have been taught we have a method of controlled testing of what we learn via sparring. For example: we have methods of comparing large arcing attacks with planted feet to tight straight attacks in front of piercing steps to judge what is more practical. We learn several styles so we can practice other methods to experience there benefits and drawbacks and to use as reference points in our study of effective and efficient training.

It has never been just repeating of science language without also being required to understand it. We are encouraged to look into alternative methods to see if they offer a better way, to see if they are more efficient. I agree fully with the article in that people will claim something is scientific and rely on that claim for effectiveness which is stupid. You must understand the science behind the claim and apply it into method to make it effective. You must try the theory with alternative methods to test if it is exclusive or universal. If the senior students are stuck on philosophy and getting it wrong so what?,...the junior student that trains and does what is required will bowl them over. That is the WT way.

Free sparring is not a scientific method of validation either.

Yes, free sparring is a scientific method of validation.


Remember, it doesn't have to be quantifiable to be scientific - repeatable and falsifiable goes a long way.

Yes, free sparring is a scientific method of validation.

What are your control variables, what are the repeatable results? MA is a social studies not a science, you would get a B.A. degree not a B.S. if it were college because you are dealing with people.

I agree you can get validation for yourself with sparring, but it is not a scientific method of testing on it's own. Your answer is just as bad as the Chunner mouth philosophy, but from the other side of the question.

Sparring can be PART of a scientific research process maybe.

What are your control variables, what are the repeatable results? MA is a social studies not a science, you would get a B.A. degree not a B.S. if it were college because you are dealing with people.
Uh, no. It would most likely be a degree in exercise science. Typically classified as a science and students in it graduate with a bachelor of science, or other equivalent.

If you want to study body mechanics, then you should probably go the exercise physiology route, specializing in the musculoskeletal system... and yes, the degree attained would be a BS Exercise Physiology. We haven't heard from too many exercise physiology people on this topic... perhaps they're doing something better with their time, like practicing their martial art.

What are your control variables, what are the repeatable results?

I have already answered these questions (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1948958&postcount=17).


MA is a social studies not a science, you would get a B.A. degree not a B.S. if it were college because you are dealing with people.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png (http://xkcd.com/435/)


Your answer is just as bad as the Chunner mouth philosophy, but from the other side of the question.

Sparring can be PART of a scientific research process maybe.

You mean, like the scientific research process that I already proposed but that you didn't bother to read?

What are your control variables, what are the repeatable results? MA is a social studies not a science, you would get a B.A. degree not a B.S. if it were college because you are dealing with people.

I agree you can get validation for yourself with sparring, but it is not a scientific method of testing on it's own. Your answer is just as bad as the Chunner mouth philosophy, but from the other side of the question.

Sparring can be PART of a scientific research process maybe.

Doc, I'd like to add to the others that, even in social sciences, the scientific method is also applicable. The only fields of study where the scientific method is hard to apply (as in near intractable, intractable or inappropriate) are those where the interpretation of things are, by nature, subjective to the observer (such as analysis and interpretation of fine arts, or theological studies.)

Also, since sparring can be part of a scientific study, then, it, as a scientific tool, can be used to proof or reach to a conclusion, or to verify something (given a sufficiently well defined context.)