So I have been doing jjj for about a year now, but the problem is that we really only work from the closed gaurd when on our backs, and I found that not very condusive to sweeping. So I found this website, trainfightwin.com, that I think has some pretty well made videos of bjj (no-gi). so I go to my summer judo class (which is all sparring for an hour and a half, yay!) and try to get to half butter fly gaurd and sweep from there, but every time i tried they stepped over into half gaurd or side control.

Please tell me what I am doing wrong?

p.s. i wasnt sure if this should go here or guantanimo bay so hopefully the mods will put it where it belongs

You're probably letting them posture up and just push it down, when you need to keep them broken down and have their weight over you for the sweep to work.

Also, there are plenty of effective sweeps from closed guard I recommend you look for the scissor sweep on youtube.

You're probably letting them posture up and just push it down, when you need to keep them broken down and have their weight over you for the sweep to work.

Also, there are plenty of effective sweeps from closed guard I recommend you look for the scissor sweep on youtube.

I do the scissor sweep, and the push on the knee sweep, but i am just looking to expand my horizons, and it seems butterfly guard was made with sweeping in mind, and the sweep i saw seemed similar to the scissor sweep so i thought i would try

http://www.aesopian.com/189/halfbutterfly-guard-with-overhook-lesson/

Are the OSU Judo people still meeting on Sundays, is there open mat time before or after? 1/2 butterfly, half, and X guard sweeps are my specialty from bottom, I can try to make it to the RPAC and show you some stuff and help drill the things from Aesopian's vid. pm me i guess.

Does your JJJ class do free ground sparring / newaza randori?

This is the youtube page for Stephan Kesting, operator of www.grapplearts.com:

http://www.youtube.com/user/StephanKesting

Watch all of his videos on the half guard and I would suggest buying his half guard DVD:

http://www.grapplearts.com/Half-Guard-Sweeps-Info.php

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Here's another link from Grapple Arts that may provide you with some assistance:

http://www.grapplearts.com/Glossary_BJJ_Half_Guard.htm

Does your JJJ class do free ground sparring / newaza randori?

we do, and we are making it a much bigger part of class than before (it used to be optional in the last 30 min, but im prez for this next year, so its gonna be mandatory for at least 20 minutes), but we have only been taught closed gaurd and I want to give us more options.

First thing to the open guard:

GET OFF YOUR BACK. SIT UP.



Sounds stupid. Sounds simple. Sounds like anybody could do it. But I am giving you the zenlike key to the universe. You won't get it. You won't understand what I am saying until one day you look back and think - HOLY CRAP! HE WAS RIGHT! All I had to do was get up off my back.

First thing to the open guard:

GET OFF YOUR BACK. SIT UP.



Sounds stupid. Sounds simple. Sounds like anybody could do it. But I am giving you the zenlike key to the universe. You won't get it. You won't understand what I am saying until one day you look back and think - HOLY CRAP! HE WAS RIGHT! All I had to do was get up off my back.

Listen to this genius. Sit the **** up in open guard.. He tries to put you down? Get under his chin and push his throat back. He'll back the **** up. Don't let him grab ****. Kick his grips off if you're in gi. He's got a strong grip but not stronger than your leg. Look for basic grip breakers in Marcello's X-guard book, or on youtube or ask your instructor. They're so easy it is almost embarrassing, but you need to master that **** so you can let them Not Grab ****.

Some key requirements to a good butterfly guard:

1. Keep your head lower than his, ideally at the level of his sternum. One of the best ways to pass someone's butterfly guard begins with top guy's head being lower than the bottom guy's head.

2. Keep your hips close to your opponent's hips. The farther away the top guy is from your hips, the weaker your butterfly guard. There is a handy drill to get better at this. Start in good butterfly. Fall back and elevate your partner with your hooks behind his knees. Your back should be rounded during the whole move. As he begins to descend, pull with your over/underhooking arms to assist in scooting your hips closer to his. Repeat ten times, focusing on ending up as close to your partner as possible once he comes back down from your elevating him.

3. Two hooks with your arms are better than one. Whatever combination of hooks is required, double overhooks, double underhooks or one overhook and one underhook.

4. Curl your toes toward your shin when you hook behind his knees/thighs or less often and not as effective, his ankles. Sounds simple, is harder to do than not curling, but it increases the efficacy of your hooking foot by a thousand percent.

Maybe Fatherdog will come along and fill in the gaps. He's highly savvy in the ways of the butterfly.

One last thing, if you derive nothing else from this thread, listen to Yrkoon9's advice. If you're lying flat on your back any other time besides mid-sweep, your guard is screwed.

First of all, if all you're taking is JJJ and Judo and all you're learning in class is closed guard, you're much better served to work on sweeps from closed guard (of which there are plenty) than to try to learn butterfly guard from the internet.

Secondly, if all you're learning is closed guard, don't even **** around with half-butterfly, just get back to guard from half.

Thirdly, if you insist on trying to play butterfly without any instruction in doing so, first, burn Yrkoon's post onto your forebrain with a soldering iron. Then read jnp's post several times, taking notes.

Then add the following -
1) never let him control your ankles/pants. If your hooks aren't in his legs yet, lean forward so your upper body is over your feet, and handfight anytime he tries to grab.

2) Once your hooks are in, keep constant outward pressure against his legs. This goes along with jnp's exhortation to keep your toes curled back. If his leg goes out, your hook should automatically follow it; if it goes back, same.

3) When sweeping, always take an angle.

4) When sweeping, extend the bottom leg as well as the top.

thanks guys! this has all been pretty helpful, though it seems the general consensus is that i need somebody to show me in person. until then I have judo tomorrow, and I will let everyone know how everything u guys said has worked out

if you only have one butterfly in you have to, have to, maintain a good underhook on that same side. You also have too stay up on your butt. Also cheat slightly too that side.