As far as I know, the problem with BJJ is there is, in fact, no governing body or council that unifies the schools, rules, and practices. In some ways I think thats a good thing, and makes the art more fluid, but its the major obstacle to it becoming an Olympic sport.

As far as I know, the problem with BJJ is there is, in fact, no governing body or council that unifies the schools, rules, and practices. In some ways I think thats a good thing, and makes the art more fluid, but its the major obstacle to it becoming an Olympic sport.

There are some big, such as the IBJJF that are pretty big and provide many schools under that banner (as well as the Gracie Barra banner) as well as tournaments, rules, promoting procedures, etc.

Then there are small organization such as organizations that only cover a certain geographical location. A Midwest BJJ Federation or something to that extent would be an example.

Then there are the orgs that are under a specific instructor or group of instructors. Similar to Renzo Gracie, Lloydd Irin, Rickson Gracie, etc, etc.

The downside is that there is no consistency in the rules for tournaments and ranking. The ranking downside is negated by the alive aspect of the art and the fact that if you are a purple belt, you can roll at a purple belt level, etc. As for the rules of the tournaments, they don't seem to be much differences in them in BJJ but in Sub Grappling, they can vary very much. I'm more partial to sub-only tournaments myself.

The upsides to no central org is exactly what you stated. Imagine if Rorion Gracie heading up that org and now everyone had to learn and be proficient in the "Gracie Gift" before promoting to the next level.

I honestly think that it needs to be a mix of a bunch of small orgs and then 1 oversight board that's really only there more so for guidance and tourny's. Their rules are there more as a template for the smaller orgs and as a database for the small orgs as well. This way, you don't have to deal with that whole "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" aspect of things.

I'm partial to the proper Jiu-Jitsu rules, because the positional point awarding makes more sense to me than that of a grappling tournament like, say, NAGA. The fact that knee on belly is worth as much as a pass to me doesn't make much sense, nor the fact that side control is worth as much as back mount. It just seems like lazy scoring, rather than with consideration for actual improvement of position. I can't wait till I'm blue, I want to go to the Pan Am's and get my ass handed to me. That should be an eye opener.

I'm partial to the proper Jiu-Jitsu rules, because the positional point awarding makes more sense to me than that of a grappling tournament like, say, NAGA. The fact that knee on belly is worth as much as a pass to me doesn't make much sense, nor the fact that side control is worth as much as back mount. It just seems like lazy scoring, rather than with consideration for actual improvement of position.I detest NAGA's scoring. Especially the 2 points for a "submission attempt." It's ludicrously subjective. At this year's NAGA World's, one of my opponents got 2 points over me for a ridiculously poor Americana "attempt."

--Joe

Agreed. They score 2 points for some things that are LITERALLY impossible to finish under that set of circumstances.

I could ATTEMPT to tear my opponents heart out with my bare hands and show it to him before he dies. 2 points please.

Sorry for the thread derailment. I meant to note that because of the various orgs, I think it's actually harder to BS claiming a BJJ black belt per this thread:

Impact House & Chris Van Valkenburg - BJJ Blackbelt? - No BS Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70209)

with the setup it is right now than it would be with one massive org based on the fact that the smaller orgs tend to be more of a community; a neighborhood if you will and the larger orgs more of a large business where you are just another nameless face.

Then again, the exception that proves the rule may be that whole Robson P. issue...!

As far as I know, the problem with BJJ is there is, in fact, no governing body or council that unifies the schools, rules, and practices. In some ways I think thats a good thing, and makes the art more fluid, but its the major obstacle to it becoming an Olympic sport.

This is a bad idea.

Thanks data I forgot to relink this thread to that one.

I don't want BJJ to become an Olympic sport. Look what happened to TKD!

HAH! TKD went from bullshit to foot tag, I don't see BJJ heading down that road anymore than wrestling. But I do agree that it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing, but it might have benefits.

The largest BJJ Governing Body is the IBJJF. I hate the IBJJF with a passion. I actually prefer the lack of a unified governing body in BJJ due to the interesting variety of rulesets that have popped up in the US, and think that it's much much healthier for the sport not to have one. The only way I'd accept a unified governing body is if it let higher level belts compete under rulesets as forgiving as Abu Dhabi. The Mundials already have lame enough rulesets, there's no need to exacerbate the situation.

Also, I absolutely do not want BJJ anywhere near the Olympics. I have no doubt in my head that the Olympics are terrible for combat sports (Boxing, anyone? Could you imagine how awful Muay Thai would be as an Olympic sport? MMA?). We have had this discussion multiple times on Bullshido, and every time we do, I become more and more convinced that Olympic involvement would dilute BJJ and subgrappling even more than the IBJJF already has.

=Also, I absolutely do not want BJJ anywhere near the Olympics. I have no doubt in my head that the Olympics are terrible for combat sports (Boxing, anyone? Could you imagine how awful Muay Thai would be as an Olympic sport? MMA?). We have had this discussion multiple times on Bullshido, and every time we do, I become more and more convinced that Olympic involvement would dilute BJJ and subgrappling even more than the IBJJF already has.

I hear what you are saying about boxing, and TKD for sure, but with grappling, the Olympics has elevated greco roman and freestyle to very great levels. Yes sometimes the matches are boring, but thats because everyones so good. Same thing happens in the college sport. I don't see why if Olympic wrestling is elevated to such a high level in the olympics why BJJ wouldn't be. The only bummer is if it became more of a spectacle like Judo, where they focus entirely now on the throws instead of the ground game that was once intrinsic to the art.

The only bummer is if it became more of a spectacle like Judo, where they focus entirely now on the throws instead of the ground game that was once intrinsic to the art.First, BJJ is not going to follow the path of wrestling if it makes it to the Olympics. It will follow the path of Judo.

Second: The Olympics are not the place for combat sports with fairly unrestricted rulesets. The benefits you suggest, such as ranking and verification of belt level (neither of which is particularly an issue in BJJ), are far outweighed by the introduction of Olympic style rules and refereeing into the sport. International sanctioning bodies that are not all they are cracked up to be. I can post arguments all day and night, but I don't think you are truly going to understand just how bad the Olympics would be for BJJ, because you think it would frickin' cool to see BJJ in THE OLYMPICS. In fact, I doubt you have thought through the suggestions you put forth adequately, or considered the implications of what will happen to BJJ as an Olympic sport. So, I am going to give you a list outlining some potential advantages and disadvantages of BJJ remaining A, how it is, and B, becoming entangled in Olympic politics.

A: BJJ as it is now, disadvantages

It will not receive the international recognition as quickly as it might as an Olympic Sport.

BJJ will continue to be expensive to train in, because expertise in it is still relatively rare

BJJ might not reach its pinnacle in terms of talent as quickly

People who aren't necessarily good for the sport will likely be put in charge of setting rules and policies, ie the Gracie family.

Advantages:

BJJ, as always, will continue to build international recognition on its own terms, such as in MMA.

We, the BJJ players of the world, will continue to police ourselves, and fight fraud as vehemently as we have in the past

The proving grounds for BJJ will remain varied: Abu Dhabi, MMA, The Mundials, NAGA, etc . . .

Basically, we retain control of our sport, and we shape the future of it based on our successes in competition against other arts

B Advantages of Olympic BJJ

It will become famous faster, thus making it cheaper to train in, will push competition in sport BJJ to higher levels, and will allow for a more uniform set of rules so the rules will be the rule in every sanctioned competition.

We will have nifty international rankings so we don't have to think for ourselves, "who is number one?"

Disadvantages of Olympic BJJ

The reffing, as bad as it can be now, will get much, much worse.

We will turn over control of our sport (policing up our own, setting the rules by which we compete) to a foreign sanctioning body that likely does not remotely understand what BJJ is.

The competition ruleset will become more restrictive, removing opportunities for sponsorship and payment, thus removing opportunities for high level competitors to make a living doing what they love. Also, crosscompetition from other arts (judo, wrestling, SAMBO) will likely end up being discouraged more than encouraged, due to the more restrictive rules.

The rules for amateur vs professional BJJ and thus, possible issues with Olympic eligibility, could cause serious problems with most of the best jiujiteiros when taking into account the variety of sports they compete in.

I can keep going, but I'll stop.

Thankfully, Olympic acceptance of BJJ is not going to come anytime soon. It's not practiced widely enough in the world for consideration. Also, it is too similar to Judo. Due to the near universal appeal of MMA, I have no doubt that BJJ will become popular enough in the future for this to become an issue, but not anytime soon. When this does happen, I hope the Olympic committee asks for us to join on our own terms, not theirs.

My final thought: Just as professional boxing is the best place to test skill in boxing (as opposed to Olympic boxing, which is awful, and not even the same sport), my hope is that jiujiteiros continue to see professional MMA as the ultimate testing ground for their BJJ. When it comes to combat sports, the least restrictive ruleset that still protects the fighters is always going to be the best.

/\

What he said....

I forgot to mention that I honestly believe the Olympics could end up being a way for the Gracies to sink their claws deeper into shaping the future of the sport, which would probably be a disaster.

Olympic BJJ vs Traditional BJJ vs Combative BJJ