Do Judo. No, seriously. It's traditional enough according to your terms and is a lot safer, as in the chance of taking **** is much less likely.

Traditional is definately a title that on many levels should only pertain to Koryu Bujutsu. Hakko Denshin Ryu is a modern sway on Hakkoryu that was officially named in 1941. The headmaster of Hakkoryu was at one time - Shihan Dai of the Daitoryu, which is a Koryu, so the very near roots and even traditions of Hakkoryu / Hakkodenshinryu are Koryu. However, the methods of transmission is much more modern.

OH ****! HAKKORYU JUJUTSU!!!

I'm sorry, I almost missed that completely. I had/have a Shodan in Hakkoryu Jujutsu. That was back in High School, oh man. I can't believe I forgot that!

Hakko is a LOT like Aikido. I mean, down to very specific techniques, I know it's because of the shared lineage and everything and does things a little differently, but it's pretty much Aikido without the stick work. The people I worked with were very focused on pressure points.

I was once told a certain technique that pinched a nerve on my wrist would affect my liver/bladder. I honestly whole heartedly believed that if I held it long enough the uke would poo themselves. Compliance is the rule. Really, if you don't comply then don't expect to get a lot done. My former Judo sensei actually took up Hakko Ryu, and might even be pretty high ranked now (not really sure, lost contact). We tried a few moves in Randori for fun (or at least I did) and found them only to work after I got control Judo style as well as a lot of surprise.

Not saying things might not work, but there is little/NO (read NO) sparring in Hakko Ryu (One of our Nidans was from Japan and sparred while doing some other form of JJJ and we tried that a bit but only black belts did it and only once every blue moon and the rules were... odd).

Hakko Ryu (from what I can remember) is made by a student of DAJJ who was also a proficient doctor in Asian Holistic Medicine (Tui Na and such, but the Japanese version) so a lot of techniques are based off of acu-meridians that can hurt if pinched right (pain compliance moves) but the big thing about this that was made of it is that you could actually serious damage or even heal your opponent's chi as you fought them (I believed ALL and compared myself to a Wong Fei Hung type person).

Most defenses are versus lapel or wrist grabs with the occassional lunge punch or haymaker. Knife, bat, etc moves are even there, but I'd never try them IRL (scary thing is, before I might have). Once a little girl asked me (I was an assistant instructor) "But what if I stab like that?" and did a Psycho Type Downwards stabby thing. Honest to God (or whatever) I couldn't think of anything and said "Well, we'll teach you that after you get good at this". She was a spunky little kid who dropped the class quick. I hope she does Judo, she'd eat other kids alive.

In any case, I really would recommend against it unless you just want the experience of kneeling and bowing and believing you can heal your opponent's chi as you bend their wrist. (I think in hte higher Menkyo levels you need to learn Shiatsu or something like that)

EDIT: Just checked out your site, Hakko and I remember reading about Denshin online back when I had to write an essay for my Shodan Exam and just plain because I was totally obsessed.

I can recall doing almost every single one of the moves in the picture gallery (don't ask me to name them, tho' I think one is "Floating Leaf" or whatever). I'm sure there's differences (I don't particularly remember the Gomaiwai thing) but I know there's pretty identical.

Oh, our sensei also taught seminars at local police facilities.

Daito-ryu's claims of Koryu status have not passed muster.

Do judo. We do all that bowing ****, then we mash each other into the mats.

It's great.

Daito-ryu's claims of Koryu status have not passed muster.

Ellis Amdur has been doing some decent blog posts on his speculations on Daito-ryu's origins at

http://www.aikidojournal.com/?author=8