Can any of the knowledgeable ata people describe whats goin on here.
http://www.atataekwondo.com/graphics/UploadFile/1165/ATA_27_-_Cropped_(2)_.jpg (http://www.atataekwondo.com/graphics/UploadFile/1165/ATA_27_-_Cropped_%282%29_.jpg)

There is quite a bit of gi pimpage here (...)

My God. That made my day. And made me want to cry inside.

I agree that a lot of the schools in the ATA have been slacking but this does not necessarily hold true for all schools. For example our school uses the block system but testing is every 4 months and mid-terms are every 2 months. Also the other reason the block structure was adopted was to eliminate useless empty time in class. This way everyone is always working on something. As for shady testing, the schools in my area have adopted stricter guidelines as of recent and are requiring more with less attempts.

I guess what I'm getting at is, the ATA is a HUGE organization and there is potential for individual schools to get it really wrong, but there are still some really good schools that are dedicated to Grand Master Lees vision and not on the bottom line.

Having done my original MA stint in the ATA, I'd like to weigh in on a few points.

As far as naming names goes, I can understand why people are reluctant to do so in this instance. The ATA system of 'world champ, state champ..." is, really, a bit of a joke as far as other 'world champ' titles are concerned. In this case, I see no reason for someone who hasn't put their own name out there to be identified. But given the vast number of champs each year in the ATA...odds are it's true. (And really, a name can just be picked at random off the lists anyway, getting just a name it pretty pointless unless you're going to follow it up in the real world...which just isn't worth the time)

Jadziabob: my personal opinion of the current ATA (not that the structure was totally hardcore 12 years ago or anything) is that schools must now do things really well in spite of the organization and methodology. I don't agree with block teaching, I never experienced useless empty time in class before it was introduced.

The ATA has been shaped very strongly by American ideals of 'fairness', 'everyone can participate', 'everyone can become a black belt' and the (in my opinion) heavy amount of politics that come with such a large organization.

Having said all that, I do think that in most cases it and other organizations like it are on the whole positive; however, I do think that language and attitudes need to change so a clear and realistic understanding of what is being taught to both students and instructors alike.

Let me know if I need to clarify any points I've made.

The ATA has been shaped very strongly by American ideals of 'fairness', 'everyone can participate', 'everyone can become a black belt' and the (in my opinion) heavy amount of politics that come with such a large organization.

Very well said. You articulated what I was trying to say on another board very well.

Well guys I see you are at it again. First of all it is not just the ATA making burgers out there. We do have an ATA in my town and they are as you say, a said excuse.
Went to Florida a said excuse also. I teach the old school way of the old ATA.
Started back in 1976 when Master Lee and his brothers were still very active and their technique was very strong.

We broke off and became the USTA and Now the ITA.
These and other organizations like them are killing this Art.
I refuse to bow down to anyone else or be used by any other so called unified structure.
I left because of these reasons and will stay away from them. If you want to create forms go ahead but don't bother the traditional forms.
A good foundations should never be tampered with.

Yes I've trained under Mr Hoadley, Mr kollars, Master Soon hoo lee Mal kun lee in ho lee, Mr Swift, Tested under Master H U Lee for Instructors and also Taught for many years.

Master Lee once told me that he did not teach weapons because it took to long to learn to kick and punch.
I hate to see the crap that is being fed to students these days.
Everything is about money, sell you under for a buck.
If you left the organization you were no longer their friend.

I decided to start training and teaching again after I saw what McDonalds was selling.
Like I said ATA and others are destroying what I loved for so long.

I'm a current member of ATA. Here are my thoughts:

* I think Jet Li's latest movie (and the last Jet Li martial arts movie) Fearless embodies the message perfectly: It's not about which MA is the best, it's about finding yourself through the MA you choose to practice.
* Through the ATA, I've done things I hadn't done before, and carried that into my life. I've learned respect for others (well, I already had that, but it's a good place to get a reinforcing shot of it), perseverance, humility, integrity, and honor.
* There are good instructors and bad instructors, as in everything in life. Someone's ATA's experience depends on 2 things: the instructor and the student. It's like private vs. public schools. It's what the student puts into it that decides what the student gets out of it.

Some thoughts for now.

whatever

I'm a current member of ATA. Here are my thoughts:

* I think Jet Li's latest movie (and the last Jet Li martial arts movie) Fearless embodies the message perfectly: It's not about which MA is the best, it's about finding yourself through the MA you choose to practice.
* Through the ATA, I've done things I hadn't done before, and carried that into my life. I've learned respect for others (well, I already had that, but it's a good place to get a reinforcing shot of it), perseverance, humility, integrity, and honor.
* There are good instructors and bad instructors, as in everything in life. Someone's ATA's experience depends on 2 things: the instructor and the student. It's like private vs. public schools. It's what the student puts into it that decides what the student gets out of it.

Some thoughts for now.

Actually it comes down to this.

Do you spar full contact like boxers, kickboxers, MMA guys, etc? If the answer is no, then your art sucks.

IAlso, how do you speak privately with your instructor (and not the eagle eye, money hungry owner) and not get him into trouble? I feel like they're so secretive. What is the big secret and where do these people hang out after hours? What is the commission structure for these instructors?
The place you train shouldn't be a place where you have to walk on egg shells. What do you want to talk to the instructor about that might get him into trouble?

Honestly, the big secret is that many in the ATA don't know all that much about fighting/martial arts, and I would say that most think they do simply because that's what they've been told...many do know quite a bit about the ATA though (but some don't even do that very well). There's no way to know how your school handles the money unless you're told.

whatever

Do the instructors get paid more for private instruction? During our class time, our instructor seemed to be giving a private lesson to a child and paid little attention to us. Maybe because it was Jermaine Taylor's son and i guess he's cool or something? Where's my private lesson?

You're kidding, right?

No offense.

:spanky: Another mother and I got pulled into the "principle's office" for talking about the extremely high prices while our children were in class. We were told it might drive away potential prospects. Hmmmmmm......Ya think? And the secret stuff, maybe it's the whole respect/boundaries/reverance thing, Maybe I'm too paranoid about that. I'm still learning my way around that place after a year.
Do the instructors get paid more for private instruction? During our class time, our instructor seemed to be giving a private lesson to a child and paid little attention to us. Maybe because it was Jermaine Taylor's son and i guess he's cool or something? Where's my private lesson?

Not like any school I've ever seen, and not one I'd want to stick around at either. The culture of the ATA is very 'chain-of-command'-ish, but for no other reason than people like to feel important. I'm not sure what your financial/contract situation is, and if your kids love it then you may be stuck...but if you feel some things need to change, you can always go for the grass-roots approach, exchange opinions in a dark alley and then go have a chat with the principle.

So is the owner an instructor at all? If you end up having semi-serious issues, you can always get a hold of some higher-ups and try to make some noise...though I think that'd be kind of a 'last stand' approach, your relationship with them would be shot, but if you're headed elsewhere anyway, may as well try to improve things for everyone else.

our kids love it so we're staying. I just hate to see it be all about the money. I want my kids to be proud of their accomplishments and I don't want them to get hurt in an open tournament. We already meet in dark alley's though! Also, the good instructors are unfortunately going to get a bad rap.

What do you mean, get hurt in an open tournament? Hurt physically, because they're not good enough, or emotionally, because of the grim realization that they're not good enough?

How old are your kids? I remember when my mom pulled me out of my Kung Fu school at 6 years old. I was feeling pretty good about my high yellow belt with 2 out of 3 stripes, but I didn't really mind when she pulled me out and switched me to TKD (unfortunately that was a McDojo, too, some big franchise called Blackbelt Taekwondo, but that's another story entirely).

hurt physically. it sounds like the tkd mcdojo thing is like the wimps MA compared to the other MA's out there. My only experience with MA's is through my daughter just this year. I'm still trying to understand it, but this site is kinda freaking me out. Do they even have open tournaments ( tournaments where every MA is invited to attend) for the kids?