I just sat through a presentation on how we are all going to learn how to sell "value" at my company, once we have a personal "breakthrough". The guy said "breakthrough" more times then Giuliani can say "911", and it had me remembering something from the past- EST! For those of you younger guys and gals, EST was a "human potential" movement- i.e. give us a bunch of money and we'll make you a new man, basically. Originally, people were locked in a room for a weekend, verbally abused and told not to do anything but listen to some asshole tell you how you needed to get "it", and "it" could not be described. The guy that started it was named Jack Rosenberg, and he changed his name to Werner Erherd (it sounds smarter, I guess) and he was originally an Encyclopedia salesman. He found the princples in a bad Sci Fi novel called EST, and made a fortune, before he was eventually disgraced and busted on tax evasion. He Changed his name to Werner Spit and lives in the Cayman islands, with his girl friend named "Hannukah". If this all sounds a little like Dianetics, EST sued them for trying to steal their scam. Anyway, I don't want to go, but I may have to. Anyone sit through the recent incarnation- the guys brother, Nathan Rosenberg, runs this version. Thanks.

Holy volcanoes, a thread on Scientology and EST in one freakin day. I promised myself I'd get some work done today too...

Dude, puncture your eardrums or keep repeating "there is no spoon." Or challenge the speaker to a death match. Either way, a company that would mandate that kind of crap isn't one that's worth working for.

EST combines fortune telling and verbal abuse to create a Forer Effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect .

Short version: just like fortune telling, the speaker says things that are vague enough to apply to anyone, and your mind unconsciously "fills in the blanks" to a point where it seems like the fortune teller (or in this case, the facilitator) knows more about you than you do. The fact is that all people find their lives unsatisfying or unfulfilling at some time or another, and think if they can just "get things going" or "make a change" (the nebulous "it" you mention), then "things will get better." These assholes are getting paid to prey on these inner fears and perceived failures, and people who don't understand the manipulation (not necessarily weak-minded people) get scammed or indoctrinated.

Used correctly, this sort of neuro-linguistic programming ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming ) can help people overcome psychological traumas and aid in self-improvement. Used wrongly on the weak-minded, you get a cult committing mass suicide so their souls can catch a ride on a UFO following behind a comet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28religious_group%29 or drinking the poisoned grape Flavor-Aid in Guyana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones .

Keep us updated on what the new techniques are. And by updated, I don't mean "come back a new man and start 'testifying' to us."

I think new2bjj just doesn't get 'it'. :)

Haven't heard about the EST guys for awhile. Nice to know that some scams never go out of style.

Call in dead that day.

BTW, the way you sell 'value' is to have some.

Holy volcanoes, a thread on Scientology and EST in one freakin day. I promised myself I'd get some work done today too...
some stellar stuff to be had here!

I went to school with Werner's son, who hated his dad. He and his sisters and their mom got a really raw deal living with that wackjob. People love to follow psycho-pathic nutjobs.
I think you should have your "breakthrough" right at the meeting: :suicide:

Holy crap; you should print out a bunch of EST critiques and debunking and send it to the head of HR and every department at the firm.

I already went to the company lawyer and I have no real way to get "out" of it. Now, my boss says I don't have to go, but right now, I just wonder if they are all pod people or some ****. The seminar is by Erherd's brother, Jack Rosenberg, a failed politician. My dilemma is- do I go and just hope that this group of managers washes out- which there is a good chance of, or, not go, they stay and I get ostracized. I agree with you on one thing Rivington- I should send everyone a copy of "Semi-Tough", the old Burt Reynolds movie that lampooned that EST crap back in 1977, and was one of the first nails in it's coffin. Now, the brothers company is called Insignium and the new version of EST is called Landmark Education. BTW- Value is standing by your product, promises and services, not some misty eye'd sales pitch that you deliver.

Insignium! If you're smart, there's alot of money to be made here. Nothing like a pile of yuppie-fktards who will sign their lives away. Look the other way during the Jedi mind trick. Srsly, who gives a ****!!! Get yo'ass paid!

Just refuse to sign any confidentiality agreements that they may ask you to sign. That should screw with their heads.

I have a friend who is big into this Landmark Education stuff. He runs Landmark Introduction sessions out of his house, and every once in a great while I get a random call from him wanting to talk about it. One time I caved in and went to the weekend-long Landmark Forum seminar (this is probably what you are getting roped into). Don't worry, you're not going to get brainwashed. But be careful. They will try to get you to sign up for a bunch more seminars, and they are not cheap. The first one will be free (well, included in the cost of the Forum, which it sounds like your boss is paying for). Just keep your head on straight, wait it out, and you'll be fine.

Really, they don't teach anything revolutionary. They basically teach that if you just decide you want to do something, you can like, go out and do it. That's pretty much the extent of "the technology." BTW, you're about to hear that word "technology" an awful lot. Enjoy.

I have a friend who is big into this Landmark Education stuff. He runs Landmark Introduction sessions out of his house, and every once in a great while I get a random call from him wanting to talk about it. One time I caved in and went to the weekend-long Landmark Forum seminar (this is probably what you are getting roped into). Don't worry, you're not going to get brainwashed. But be careful. They will try to get you to sign up for a bunch more seminars, and they are not cheap. The first one will be free (well, included in the cost of the Forum, which it sounds like your boss is paying for). Just keep your head on straight, wait it out, and you'll be fine.

Really, they don't teach anything revolutionary. They basically teach that if you just decide you want to do something, you can like, go out and do it. That's pretty much the extent of "the technology." BTW, you're ab"out to hear that word "technology" an awful lot. Enjoy.
I think they are going to say "breakthrough" a lot- the guy said it like 30 to 40 times in his one hour "webinar". The hair on my neck started to rise, the more times he said it- I imagine if he keeps repeating "technology", he'll get sued. -"Hey, you stole my yuppie scam! No fair!"

Hmmm... I think I could find this really fun if I was in a job that I didn't care about losing.

In fact, having a job where I had to go to one of these seminars would probably make me not care about losing my job.

If I wasn't making so much money there, believe me, I'd leave. I have a feeling that they are going to let me take a pass on this, as I might sully up the waters if I am forced to go.

If I wasn't making so much money there, believe me, I'd leave. I have a feeling that they are going to let me take a pass on this, as I might sully up the waters if I am forced to go.
I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this. Your co-workers are not suddenly going to turn into mindless robots spouting est propaganda (well, some of them might, but they are harmless), and you're not missing out on much by skipping it. A lot of people who go through it come out with the feeling that they have experienced something amazing, and then after a week or two they are back to their normal selves. That's why Landmark tries to get you to keep signing up for more seminars -- to keep it fresh in your mind (and to keep the money flowing). A few of your co-workers might get really into it, and they might be annoying for a while. That's the worst of it.

Others come out of it feeling like they narrowly escaped joining a cult. But people aren't made out of glass; they'll be fine. When this is over it will be back to business as usual.

So...did you survive? What happened?

This doesn't happen for a few weeks, and my basic issue is that I find it insulting to sit for two days with a guy that I know is a con man, and waste the time when I could be selling. Right now, with the way things are, my company needs as much sales as possible, and if we do well, I'd hate to thing this crap would be mandatory. What I mean is- everyone needs to make money, they work hard, and then this guy pipes in to his pod people about how he showed them a way to make a "breakthrough!".