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archrival50
1/23/2008 10:00am,
KFM

JKD in priciple, adapted by Justo and Andy, incorporates a huge range of areas SUch as JKDC, FMA, BJJ, Silat

Will add more when i get more time

Jadonblade
1/23/2008 10:18am,
I think review really could do with abit more indepth writing. And alot more info. Talk about its strengths and weaknesses to justify the scores you gave.

zipit777
4/17/2008 1:28pm,
www.keysikfm.com

GoldenJonas
4/21/2008 2:49pm,
Oh, thanks for the help Zipit (sarcasm).

archrival50,

Please find the time as your "review" is fairly worthless at this point.

Do you train there?
Have you taken classes there?
What are your observations/opinions?

zipit777
4/24/2008 8:08am,
Hi guys, I am currently in Spain right now training with the founders of KFM and staff and I have to say one thing, very intense and very direct system, when they say the use the whole body as a weapon they truly do. Everything on their site is accurate and the teaching is fantastic....This system is for warriors and work horses....You can learn more on the WHITE BELT level then you can in 10 years in traditional....

I will be checking the forum when I can and I am on a 6 hour time difference so please feel free to ask questions while I am here...Today is the 24th, I will be here until Tuesday....

They are also coming to the states in October to NYC, see for yourself....I like what I see so far very much and it is an EYE OPENER.....

Great for Cardio and MMA fighters alike.....The biggest question they answer is WHY DO YOU DO WHAT YOU DO......

It can be answered in a hundred different ways, but they look to you, the student to have the Master Key....

Zipit777-

jimmy_the_eel
4/24/2008 9:21am,
"Everything on their site is accurate". The site gives almost zero information.
They are trying to market the whole thing seem like a revolution in martial arts, which it is not.

Basically, it is a mix of Inosanto- lineage martial arts (JKD, Kali, Silat, Muay Thai etc), with crazy-monkey boxing thrown in and some training ideas from RBSD/ Krav Maga. It is NOT the revolutionary new method of fighting they would like you to believe, but it does have it’s merits. Incidentally, up until a year or so ago the promo material, tshirts etc had JKD, kali, silat etc emblazoned all over them, and they had a close association with Dan Inosanto, who would teach at the annual Keysi International Conference over in Spain, but now I can’t seem to find any mention of JKD on the website.

Not as revolutionary as Justo and Andy would like you to believe, but some very good stuff in there, realistic training, sparring….KFM was gaining a good following for a while, but it's been pretty much butt-fucked by it’s own runaway batman marketing hype machine.

And distance learning programmes? Seriously.

All that said, if you can actually train with a decent instructor then you will learn a lot, there are a lot of useful techniques in there, training is very alive and studnts are encouraged to find things for themselves and to question what they are being taught. And Andy and Justo are both awesome at what they do.
Enjoy.

Kambei Shimada
4/24/2008 11:45am,
Hmm it seems alright, Both the guys trained under Bob Breen who's a very good JKD/arnis instructor.

I'm not really sure their system offers anything too different from whats currently available at most JKD schools.

jimmy_the_eel
4/24/2008 11:55am,
As most JKD schools also teach MT (and therefore work the clinch) and some form of grappling, that's true to a point, although I found the whole thinking man AKA crazy monkey defence useful, especially for building up confidence in beginners. Also there is much much less emphasis on trapping, especially in the stand-up game, which is good because trapping sucks the balls imo.

Also there are a lot of JKD McDojos about these days (Bob Breen isn't one of them, btw)

zipit777
4/24/2008 7:13pm,
Jimmy, I am a former JKD and Wing Tsun guy myself and what I have seen thus far has NOTHING to do with any of it, just because there history was what it was, doesnt mean people reflect back on it....If you havent studied it or trained in it, how can you come up with your answer, through pure speculation?
Its like saying Bruce Lee was a former Wing Chun Guy, which is true, but his thinking changed, he wasnt one dimensional....
So basically you shouldnt be calling it JKD because it is NOTHING like it what so ever....They are expanding int America and as with anything come up with the opinion first hand not from the he say she said way of thinking....

You are right and your are wrong at the same time - KEYSI if it does well, in America, will be very popular within 2 years....

I dont speak from what I read or hear, I am training with them right now....as we speak...Its intense and most American Warriors will love it....Dont judge by short clips on a video, it is 1 single movement...If you have a question, I will pass it on to them for you and get the answer straight from the source....

Hope this helps....

-zipit

jimmy_the_eel
4/25/2008 3:43am,
Zipit777, I trained KFM in the UK for a little over 4 years, before this I was in JKD, I do have some idea of what I am talking about. I have a Keysi shirt back home and can you guess what it has written across the back?

I am not getting at the system, just the hype around it, if it does well in America, all well and good, I just hope that the students are not all learning it by distance learning DVDs.

PS, the answer is Jeet Kune Do, in case you were wondering. =)

GoldenJonas
4/25/2008 3:30pm,
Jimmy,

Can you elaborate on the training to make this review a little more worthwhile.

Thanks

zipit777
4/27/2008 11:28pm,
When I was in Spain this week, I spoke with the founders about this and NO, there will be no distant learning instructors in America, all will be born and raised through Justo and Andy...Period...
Let me guess on the t-shirt? Batman Stunt Crew? :)

Well anyway, I am the Coordinator of Operations right now, I am NO instructor, nor am I an Ambassador, I am a firm believer you MUST EARN a title...

They are planning to come here (NYC) and teach here for a while to get people up to speed, but I KNOW that this will do well in America...Hey if its good enough for Batman, its good enough for me :)LOL

Omega Supreme
4/28/2008 12:06am,
Mega throwdown's on Memorial day weekend, what are the chances for a meet up?

jimmy_the_eel
4/29/2008 5:30pm,
Sure, GoldenJonas,

training sessions had a pretty good balance between standup, takedowns and groundfighting, and from pad drills to different levels of compliant partner drills with increasing resistance to sparring, there was also an element of drilling under different circumstances, in enclosed spaces, on stairs, with multiple opponents etc.

I think Keysi really shines at the standup part, the "thinking man" (exactly the same as CM Boxing) covers used are very simple to learn so I think a total beginner can get a lot of confidence much quicker than in say, boxing or MT. In other arts might have to go to a few weeks of classes before you even see how to do some of the defences, slips, ducks, parries, b & ws etc and it makes good use of elbows to damage the fist of the person punching you. It also pays to have something simple to fall back on, I have had to use the thinking man cover twice when I was jumped while walking home from clubs and was in no fit state to defend myself any other way. I have luckily never had to defend myself against more than one person, but in drills and free-for-alls in the gym it seems to be the best option as you can keep a large part of your head shielded.

Keysi also makes good use of strikes that aren't so conventional, like palm strikes and hammer fists, which I also like. Kicking was pretty standard- MT style roundkicks, stomp kicks, although we were also occasionally trained in more savate-style kicks which I don't like, and also side kicks etc. Kick defences were mostly either shin blocks or an intercept-style kick to the low line, thinkin man defence on the mid- high lines. We were also taught to strike from different positions rather than just to a person directly in front of you. Elbows and knees were mostly standard MT- vale tudo style, only thing i didn't like were ther horizontal elbows thrown while the hand is still planted on the head, i reckon a standard MT elbow is much more effective here.

Takedowns were mostly pretty standard shoots etc, although they tended to wander off a bit into overly complicated kali/silat territory (2 arts i used to train and am no longer keen on) but we were always given a bunch of techniques and told to work on/spar the ones we liked, so that was ok.

Groundwork was pretty good, although nowhere near the standard you would receive if you went to a decent BJJ/ Sambo club, I think an emphasis in keysi is definitely street application, so there was an emphasis on getting out of the situation as quickly as possible.

Sparring could be either say, just groundwork (although usually fish-hooks, grabbing the groin etc etc was allowed), or groundwork with strikes, or just standup, or anything goes, standup to ground. Only problem we had with sparring was that it was almost always with MMA fight gloves with very little protective gear other than a gum shield, rather than the progressive sparring you'll receive in boxing training for instance, so there was a high level of injuries and a subsequent low turnout for sparring classes. I think this was compounded by the fact that it tends to be marketed as for self-defence (and as the style of batman) so some of the people that are maybe attracted to the style are not so keen on sparring anyway.

Any other questions, give us a shout and i'll try to answer them.

zipit777
4/30/2008 6:38pm,
Jimmy, where you a Blackbelt in KFM? Did you study with Roland/Andy?

jimmy_the_eel
5/02/2008 7:48am,
Hey, Zipit. No, as it happens I never graded so am a flesh-coloured belt in KFM.

I lost my enthusiasm for belts in the JKD belt-factory I trained in before, but that's another story.