Actually, Captain America is the first fictional super- soldier...:usa2:
The Nazis were experimenting with a lot of stuff like this. The CIA and KGB looted their research centers and interrogated all the scientists they could round up.
I read a book once called "Secret Weapons Of WW2" or something like that and it described a bit of this, but it wasn't the greatest book. Just some popular culture paperback.

Actually, Captain America is the first fictional super- soldier...:usa2: .
no that would be "Boilerplate"http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/soldier/bp.sj.jpg

haven't there been concerns about:
a) the frame being able to handle the stress
b) the heart being able to handle the stress
c) the mind being able to handle the stress

Well this sortof pertains to supersoldiers but i got it on my mind as soon as i started reading this...

I recall seeing a movie, the name escapes me at the time, but these military officials take a large group of orphans, and over a period of their lifetime put them through very vigorous tests like strength training, running and so on, the catch is that every person that fails the tests dies so they narrow it down to one person and he becomes some superhuman soldier guy that can beat the crap out of or kill any person that takes him on. Im not entirely sure if everything i said is right on target, the reason being i saw the movie a long time ago, but if you guys recall this movie please correct me on anything and tell me the name of the movie. Really the whole thing seemed possible to make some guy almost identical to MasterChief from freakin' Halo, its still sortof a good idea though.:toothy10:

Thanks,
Lone Wind

amphetamines of various sorts were used widely by the nazis.

Everyone uses amphetamines. It's yet another atrocity attributed to the South African army, I'm told, as well as subjecting gay soldiers to aversion therapy.

Amphetamines were first used in WWI IIRC.

There are probably lots of things that could be done with current-day genetic knowledge that aren't done by the wealthy liberal democracies with access to the technology, for ethical reasons. Examples:

We can make mice with a single gene alteration that are born with triple the normal muscle mass and don't seem to need exercise to maintain it.

We can create mice with a single gene alteration that massively increases their aerobic stamina, running speed and aggression levels.

(Both variants don't seem to crop up in nature very often because both varients mean the mammal afffected has massively increased food requirements).

We might see all sorts of stupid and inhumane **** tried out as the knowledge and lab techniques spread and the equipment costs drop.

Amphetamines were first used in WWI IIRC.

There are probably lots of things that could be done with current-day genetic knowledge that aren't done by the wealthy liberal democracies with access to the technology, for ethical reasons. Examples:

We can make mice with a single gene alteration that are born with triple the normal muscle mass and don't seem to need exercise to maintain it.

We can create mice with a single gene alteration that massively increases their aerobic stamina, running speed and aggression levels.

(Both variants don't seem to crop up in nature very often because both varients mean the mammal afffected has massively increased food requirements).

We might see all sorts of stupid and inhumane **** tried out as the knowledge and lab techniques spread and the equipment costs drop.Do you see Western countries ever pursuing this stuff in earnest, or will it be done by some country like North Korea? It seems to me that if the government in a place like the US or the UK actually began genetically engineering super soldiers there would be a huge public outcry if it ever got out. In my mind, it will mostly likely be done by someone like Kim Jong Il who doesn't really give a **** about what his public or the world community thinks. I'm probably being naive though.

Do you see Western countries ever pursuing this stuff in earnest, or will it be done by some country like North Korea?
It seems to me that if the government in a place like the US or the UK actually began genetically engineering super soldiers there would be a huge public outcry if it ever got out. In my mind, it will mostly likely be done by someone like Kim Jong Il who doesn't really give a **** about what his public or the world community thinks. I'm probably being naive though.

Yes, that's what I meant. Although the US govt. has made military pilots take amphetamines, and tested stuff like BZ in Vietnam. I just don't see them doing it on a scale they'd have to admit to in the near future.

Slow cultural changes where drugs which activated certain genes to give people an advantage that helped them survive war, came to be seen by soldiers the way a lot of people on Bullshido view steroids could happen in our lifetime though.

Those mice were insane! they could run at something like 200 metres in 20 seconds for something like 10 miles. They made them so they didnt produce any lactic acid.

Seeing as regular people multiply and grow to maturity on their own, and you can always just draft them by the tens of thousands- pretty much for free- a "supersoldier" would have to be pretty freakin effective to justify the expense.

I was reading an article a couple years ago (can't remember where) describing a suit that US Military contractors were working on that would regulate body temp, provide body armor around the torso and also automatically act as a temporary bandage in case of GSW to other parts of the body.

Seeing as regular people multiply and grow to maturity on their own, and you can always just draft them by the tens of thousands- pretty much for free- a "supersoldier" would have to be pretty freakin effective to justify the expense.

It depends whether they'll always be expensive. What if the cost of creating one was a case of a couple of injections during boot camp of a mass-produced agent followed by outfitting them with mass-produced equipment ?

Whatever they come up with, if it tests well, would presumably be pretty quickly be scaled up to mass production so it ranked alongside assault rifles, night scopes and anti-biotics in cost.

Remember, the soldiers we have now are super-soldier's compared to the people who fought in the napoleonic wars.

Those mice were insane! they could run at something like 200 metres in 20 seconds for something like 10 miles. They made them so they didnt produce any lactic acid.

You got a source for that? it sounds OTT. The article I read described them as running X percent faster and having something like 2 or 3 times the endurance of an average mouse coupled with observed more aggressive behaviour.

Ah yes I got it completely wrong! but they are still impressive!

"The GM rodents can run five to six kilometres at a speed of 20 meters per minute on a treadmill, for up to six hours before stopping."

"The scientists found their new mice would eat twice as much as normal mice - but weigh half as much. They could also give birth at three years old - which in human terms is akin to an 80-year-old woman giving birth."

"He told BBC News: "The muscles of these mice have many more mitochondria. These are the little 'engines' in the cell that produce energy. For some reason, the number of mitochondria are around 10 times more than we see in the muscle of their littermates."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7074831.stm

I'd love to see what effect the same treatment would have on human physical capabilities.

I'd love to see how that would translate in terms of human physical capabilities.

Utter crazyness. Probaly like running 3 minute miles for a marathon.

I reckon they should introduce a super olympics, where all enhancements are allowed. Just to see how far we could push the human body. See what the human body is capable of doing with technology.

I'd love to see how that would translate in terms of human physical capabilities.

More detail here, with a video comparing normal wild mice and GM 'marathon' mice.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071101162739.htm

The test in the article describes a sort of bleep test where the pace keeps increasing. Normal mice drop out at 19 minutes, and these crazy little fuckers carried on past half an hour.

They basically just keep burning fat directly without switching to muscle glycogen and therefore have ridiculous anaerobic threshold. They can do this partly because they have a lot more mitochondria per cell.

I'm not a biologist but it sounds like this would translate to a human that could sustain an 'anaerobic' workload for 'aerobic' timespans. Like somebody who could maintain a sprint pace for miles on end until they'd burned up all the fat reserves that the rest of their metabolism had been able to dump into their bloodstream.

The mice are described as having a much lower body-fat percentage and massive appetites, so that would fit. I guess for a human, instead of your muscles burning with lactic acid and then failing on you, you'd just be able to carry on until you got weak from hunger.