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Virus
12/31/2007 9:26pm,
What are ghosts? well, a ghost is a thing that sort of goes "woo-woo" which is supposed to be the spirit of a dead person. Ghosts have captured the public imagination for a long time, and still today we are fascinated by movies depicting the supernatural troublemakers.

So what is the evidence for the existence of ghosts? Well strictly speaking, there is none but the question should be phrased, "what is the supposed evidence for the existence of ghosts?"

As in most claims of the paranormal, the evidence takes the form of personal anecdote. Most of us have probably heard a story or two about a supposed sighting. Most of these anecdotes begin with the person lying in bed. There is a phenomena known as sleep paralysis in which the brain is awake, but the body is still paralyzed due to chemical movement inhibitors released during sleep. Of course, every person that tells one of these stories believes they are not delusional, and has in fact seen "t3h r34l" ghost.

Not all ghost sightings happen during sleep, but the phenomena can still be attributed to hallucination. Occam's Razor would support this view. What is more likely? That there is a whole new field of physics and biology that we need to take on board (What are ghosts made of and how can there be a "spirit" that lives in the body and survives death?) or that the person saying the story is deluded?

Do a google search for ghost photos. The results are either obvious fakes, or lame. Just look at these silly photos for an example of how people force themselves to see something that isn't there:


http://www.mysticalblaze.com/Plate3.jpg

I have just been browsing the internet to try and find somewhere I could post some pictures that were taken on Saturday 02 Sep 2006. Please let me explain, my wife and I got a Chinese take away on Saturday afternoon to have later in the evening. We put part of the meal onto an oven tray that has been covered in tin foil. Once we had finished the meal I took off the foil to wash the dish and found the following image on the dish. We have not got any idea who the image is, or how and why it appeared on our dish. Please let us know if anybody has any ideas. www.mysticalblaze.com/GhostPics.htm

Personally, I'm pretty clueless as to how brown blob of congealed food could appear on a plate of Chinese takeaway.

Now there are ones like this:

http://www.mysticalblaze.com/LadyGhost.jpg

You can see a human looking figure in the background, but you have to remember that we only see it that way because we are hard wired to see patterns. What you are looking at is really just an artifact of the photographic process that looks a bit like a human face.

OK, this one I really don't have an explanation for:

http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/ghost-towel-1.jpg

It's disappointing, but pop culture prefers bunk to skepticism. There's a whole bunch of silly shows where people stay in "haunted" houses and bring EMF detectors and other instruments that were never invented to detect ghosts. These shows do society a disservice by keeping the delusion going, which is just a small part of keeping irrational thinking going. As a kid, I also saw that movie with Patrick Swayzee when I was on a plane and thought it was bloody terrible.

hoodedmonk
1/01/2008 2:34am,
See full-size image.

www.fairmont.org/150/articles/photos/kkk.jpg
429 x 640 - 32k
Image may be scaled down and subject to copyright.

socratic
1/01/2008 2:41am,
Various members of my family and friends insist that ghosts exist, and have haunted locales they have been to.

One of my favourite teachers in College worked with a Ghost Tour company in Canada, working in the town and the old(e) British fort. Apparently that place is pretty damn haunted, with run-of-the-mill symptoms such as footsteps, voices, objects floating, doors slamming, and wet footprints appearing on the floor or something. Various personnell involved in the company or with it have insisted on encounters, with both benign and malign beings.

A few of my friends and aquaintances insist that their old High School is haunted, as there was at least one child death in front of it, and all kinds of bizarre events happen. One account was that a girl attempted to open an always unlocked door, to find it locked. She suddenly found her hand stuck to the knob, and it rattling feircely. She 'snapped out of it' and screamed, but the people around her missed it. The cleaners get pestered by ghostly children turning off the lights/rattling the doors/hiding under the tables, etc. I imagine some of the events there are more or less benign.

Very apparently, the house my mother used to live in as a girl, had a haunted bathroom. This was one of the really old kinds of bathrooms- with a copper and everything. The only account I've heard from mum is that "That place is haunted".

Worldchampion!
1/01/2008 3:44am,
Arguing this to someone who really believes in this stuff is pretty pointless in my experience, they'll just get very upset and accuse you of being closeminded and hating their "psychic" aunt, friend or whatever.

I'd be open to learning some way of arguing this that won't make this happen, beyond the obvious, just not doing it.

Poop Loops
1/01/2008 4:31am,
This is another one of those "no evidence, but I'll keep an open mind to it" sort of things in my case.

I've never experienced anything with ghosts, and even if I did, I know myself enough to know that it was my own paranoia that made me think it was ghosts. Sometimes there's compelling stories other people have said, but I can't refute them since I don't know of all the details.

Most recent one was a guy telling me both him and his girlfriend experience sleep paralysis at the same time one night. I've only had it once myself and I know it's a common occurrence, but it happening simultaneously is what made me raise an eyebrow. It wasn't the whole story, as he said other weird **** happened, but yeah, it's only someone else's story and I can't inspect it deeply.

Poop Loops
1/01/2008 4:35am,
Very apparently, the house my mother used to live in as a girl, had a haunted bathroom. This was one of the really old kinds of bathrooms- with a copper and everything. The only account I've heard from mum is that "That place is haunted".

God damn I'd hate to have a haunted bathroom. Always pull that mirror ****, where you bend over to wash your face, then as you come up and look at the mirror there is someone behind you.

Not to mention not being able to take a crap in peace.

My plan if I ever end up in a haunted place is to play Death Metal really loud. Either scare the ghost away or make a new friend.

Worldchampion!
1/01/2008 4:39am,
Yeah, but in a sense, this "keeping an open mind about" is just "keeping an open mind" about something that has no basis in reality, while closing your mind off to science and other arguments against it that are firmly rooted in reality.

I've heard this said so much better than I did...

...I'm through being an smartass now.

Airman Kai
1/01/2008 4:54am,
God damn I'd hate to have a haunted bathroom. Always pull that mirror ****, where you bend over to wash your face, then as you come up and look at the mirror there is someone behind you.

Ooooooh, yah, I hate that ****, like when you're going for something in the cupboard, too, and when you close it, it's right behind you? Hate it.

As for the, "What are ghosts?" question... I've always thought of ghosts as imprints left by actual events. Which is to say that I don't think ghosts, if they were to exist, are sentient, but rather just a series of repeating patterns that affect the unlucky haunted.

Poop Loops
1/01/2008 4:59am,
Yeah, but in a sense, this "keeping an open mind about" is just "keeping an open mind" about something that has no basis in reality, while closing your mind off to science and other arguments against it that are firmly rooted in reality.

I've heard this said so much better than I did...

...I'm through being an smartass now.

How am I closing my mind to science and other arguments against it?

If someone says "I done saw a ghost!" and you give a better explanation for it, then that's it. I won't argue unless your explanation is missing something.

Virus
1/01/2008 5:16am,
Haunted bathrooms suck. Try brushing your teeth while a spirit farts and takes a crap. The smell is awful too. Considering that people are at an increased risk of a heart attack whilst on the bog, I'm surprised there aren't more shitter spirits out there.

The thing about stories is that they are subject to human memory and emotions. An occurrence that may be slightly odd may be embellished with false details in someone's memory into a full blown spooky mystery. Obviously the person telling the story believes in ghosts and has an interest in making the story seem more extraordinary.

Worldchampion!
1/01/2008 5:19am,
Oh, I'm not sure I should really be arguing with you, it's all probably due to miscommunication (I'm a big offender here).

I'll just shout "Ghosts aren't real"! Then start sobbing and run off in an huff. Works for me.

Airman Kai
1/01/2008 5:43am,
Oh, I'm not sure I should really be arguing with you, it's all probably due to miscommunication (I'm a big offender here).

I'll just shout "Ghosts aren't real"! Then start sobbing and run off in an huff. Works for me.
Hey there, fellow member, I was wondering... why don't you have an avatar? All the cool kids are doing it. And you did pay $20.

Here's a few to choose from. They're my gift to you.

http://img1.pic-host.net/img1/u/080101/52309fbb08.jpg

http://img1.pic-host.net/img1/u/080101/da63b40223.png

http://img1.pic-host.net/img1/u/080101/d3466cccf6.gif

Worldchampion!
1/01/2008 5:47am,
Oh, the first one might imply I was actually funny or thought other people here were funny?

Second one might imply I'm racist.

Third one. I don't LARP, I pen and paper roleplaying for the win!

I sure demolished you there, made you look like an right fool there, didn't I?

Airman Kai
1/01/2008 5:52am,
Oh, the first one might imply I was actually funny or thought other people here were funny?

Second one might imply I'm racist.

Third one. I don't LARP, I pen and paper roleplaying for the win!

I sure demolished you there, made you look like an right fool there, didn't I?
I can only take so much rejection. No to all three? You might as well slit my wrists for me!:dead:

Worldchampion!
1/01/2008 5:55am,
Well, you rejected my drunken advances that night back then, so we're about even now!

Virus
1/01/2008 9:33am,
Any hard skeptics out there ever had a ghost hallucination? I personally never have.