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View Full Version : Aikido-style armlocks to defeat the sprawl.








Boyd
11/15/2007 11:50pm,
I'm terrible at Judo. Just terrible. I can't figure out why. I understand the underlying principles, I've read a lot of instructional material, train under a Judo black belt, drill kuzushi and entrances. But for some reason, Judo just doesn't click with me. But that's fine, because I'm a pretty decent wrestler with strong hips and a persistent shot. This doesn't become a problem until I'm forced to work takedowns with a gi, when I inevitably shoot and get inevitably sprawled on.

For a while my go-to response was just driving forward until I caught the single leg, then shucking my opponent's body up, readjusting, and completing the single from whatever angle I deemed appropriate. Then I remembered I was shooting primarily on BJJers who sometimes make silly mistakes like hooking around my waist, or not crushing my upper body enough. So I began working the sit-out escape more frequently, leery at first since I tend to get my back taken when I try this (mostly because I have trouble getting my head pinned to the inside of the leg, but that's neither here nor there). Then I had one of my trademark retarded epiphanies: what if I sat out and turned towards their upper body instead of their legs?

I experimented a few times with mixed results. Once they caught on, my opponent could easily counter by simply turning to face me. If I acquired an appropriately dominating overhook and shot my hips out far enough, however, the position I wound up in was similar to an omoplata with the arms.

So I worked it a little more and discovered the benefit of this position over an omoplata is I could use my arms to more aggressively attack the arm while maintaining the control benefits of traditional omoplatas; that is, using my upper body to pin one of their shoulders. Eventually I began getting the rarest of all gimmicks, the Aikido armbar, consistently.

I'd like to know if anyone else tries this counter, or similar responses to the sprawl.

MEGALEF
11/16/2007 12:54am,
By Aikido armbar do you mean waki gatame?
http://web1.vattnet.com/judo/katamewaza/wakigatame.html

We have drilled sit outs to waki gatame in my judo newaza class. Never got the armlock from it. Instead I've been rather successfull with a kind of seoi nage. Say I sit out to the left, my left hand cupping their right elbow. While keeping their right arm tight against my left shoulder I then over rotate and do a modified seoi nage. They land either on their face or if I'm able to get my hips under them in bottom side control.

Hedgehogey
11/16/2007 1:10am,
What I think he means is Sankyuu (http://www.ilmioaikido.it/sankyo%20disegno.gif) from the sitout, except you're actually driving your weight onto his arm and hugging his upper forearm. To avoid Aikinfection, this movement is now called the Armoplata.

I did this to a relative newbie today and ended up driving into his tricep. I couldn't quite tap him by shoulder rolling on his arm like a reverse omo, but a million comedy points for whoever can.

DayOfTheJackass
11/16/2007 2:47am,
do you mean ikkyo? http://pacific-aikido.org/GW2000/GW00ChrisIkkyo.jpg if so, why not use the two-on-one arm control with your shoulder on theirs?

Boyd
11/16/2007 11:43am,
I'm referring to waki gatame.

Plasma
11/16/2007 11:54am,
Waki Gatame is standard Judo. Its not a gimmick technique.

ViciousFlamingo
11/16/2007 12:11pm,
Waki gatame is a great move. It doesn't seem to be used all that much in BJJ, which is why I use it with glee whenever we work takedowns.

The transition from under sprawl to waki gatame can also be modified to a hammerlock. I've found that after I hit the waki gatame a few times on a decent grapplers, they learn pretty quickly to not let their arm extend, and will instead turn with you if you're not blocking their hip or knee or try to pull you into their guard. Two re-counters I use are (1) switching to the basic hammerlock by cross-grabbing the wrist while keeping the overhook and sitting through (bonus to switching to drop seoi nage or a makikomi-type sweep), and (2) scooting your hips out and then attacking with a hail-mary triangle.

fanatical
11/16/2007 4:04pm,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uQGIbm1hiw

:)

LI GUY 1
11/16/2007 5:25pm,
I sit out from under the sprawl into the upper body (as opposed to sitting out and going for the hips for the takedown) but instead of going for the submission (the waki gatame thingy) I always just established a front headlock and work from there. I can choke, take the back, stand up, whatever.

catch22
11/16/2007 6:04pm,
What I think he means is Sankyuu (http://www.ilmioaikido.it/sankyo%20disegno.gif) from the sitout, except you're actually driving your weight onto his arm and hugging his upper forearm. To avoid Aikinfection, this movement is now called the Armoplata.

I did this to a relative newbie today and ended up driving into his tricep. I couldn't quite tap him by shoulder rolling on his arm like a reverse omo, but a million comedy points for whoever can.

Sounds more like rokkyo. I think it's seen under different names across a lot of MA

Kokujin
11/16/2007 9:31pm,
One of my favorite responses to the simple sprawl would be, lift one of his arms over your head, turn your body to one side and "spin" over him getting his back in the process. For visual explanation refeer to the fight between Jason Black and Tiago Tavares, Tiago pulled that off, got Jason's back in one swoop and went for the RNC! A thing of beauty!

TEA
11/17/2007 1:27am,
What I think he means is Sankyuu (http://www.ilmioaikido.it/sankyo%20disegno.gif) from the sitout, except you're actually driving your weight onto his arm and hugging his upper forearm. To avoid Aikinfection, this movement is now called the Armoplata.

I did this to a relative newbie today and ended up driving into his tricep. I couldn't quite tap him by shoulder rolling on his arm like a reverse omo, but a million comedy points for whoever can.
Hmm, I'm seem to remember almost landing the sankyu with you one of the first times we rolled. Of course, once I failed (I got the irimi but failed to get a lock on your arm with my back hand during the tenkan), you brutally punished me by getting knee on belly and just played with me a bit before taking mount and choking me out with your gi. Of course, sankyu is a lot easier to pull of if you set it up the irimi with a solid palm heel to the nose. But then again, what technique isn't easier to pull of after smacking the other guy hard in the nose?

Hedgehogey
11/17/2007 2:09am,
It's not sankyo really, i'm just using it to illustrate your position relative to his arm. You're in that same position but he's turtled, you're hugging his forearm rather than trying to twist it with your grips and you're driving your weight into the back of his elbow.