Refer to all fo the answers already posted, but also consider this. Often people choose Judo for self defense because there's more technique in there that leaves the other guy in pain on the ground and you still standing. Most fight-ending techniques in BJJ require going to the ground, which on the street can be potentially dangerous.

However, and this is very important for non-dojo application, BJJ often trains both gi and no-gi grappling. It's my impression that Judo does much less no-gi practice, which means you'll have to modify your technique for use on the street. You'll have to practice this on your own unless you studio does it, because changing muscle memory on the fly and trying to throw someone with it while you're being attacked is nearly impossible.

Refer to all fo the answers already posted, but also consider this. Often people choose Judo for self defense because there's more technique in there that leaves the other guy in pain on the ground and you still standing. Most fight-ending techniques in BJJ require going to the ground, which on the street can be potentially dangerous.

However, and this is very important for non-dojo application, BJJ often trains both gi and no-gi grappling. It's my impression that Judo does much less no-gi practice, which means you'll have to modify your technique for use on the street. You'll have to practice this on your own unless you studio does it, because changing muscle memory on the fly and trying to throw someone with it while you're being attacked is nearly impossible.

in the winter or cold fall it gi or no gi probably wont make much of a difference and there is quite a few judo throws that doesnt require a gi lol

Before I begin, I'd like to say that I don't know much ground grappling, but I do plan on taking some in the future. Please try to keep that in mind before reading this.


I am wondering about the strategy you grapplers/mixed fighters do in those situations. Regardless of technique: I know most of us want to end things quick with a strike, submission (I would assume you would be looking for a break: Whether it's progressive, or quick), choke, hold, et cetera...

For those that have experience with ground grappling: What is the strategy you try to adopt in street situations? I know that there's various positions where you can break joints/limbs/et cetera, but I'm not sure if there's truly a general strategy behind what you do (And what I plan on doing later on).

There's no "better" martial arts. It doesn't matter if you do Judo or BJJ. If you are a BJJ n00b against a Judo master, you'd be finished. If you're a Judo n00b against a BJJ master, you're equally fucked.

It's all in the individual. Of course, if the art you're training in discourages questions, experimentation, and free thought, you should reconsider your choice.

dude there is no better martial arts but every martial arts has its own use.
and what your saying is pretty off topic, i believe this thread is how a judo on the streets against an average joe or bjj against average joe.

and its not all on the individual, i can get a tai chi master and i would put my money on an anyone that learned any kickboxing or judo to beat him

*no offence to anyone that does tai chi, it just came to my mind at that moment*

track and field is the strongest art against multiple attackers. i keep telling people this, and yet they dont train running.

track and field is the strongest art against multiple attackers. i keep telling people this, and yet they dont train running.

Oh snap..my instructor always says that! That's why he makes us run all the time.
Try getting me bitches! LOL

I think any time you face multiple attackers it isn't going to be pretty no matter what you study and if they've had any training at all it's going to be even worse. If all possibilities of escape are gone, probably the only thing that will serve as 'multiple attacker defense' is the fact that if you're in any art that amounts to anything you've been hammered on such a regular basis that when these bastards get a hold of you, you don't go down easy -and maybe you get to **** at least one of them up before they smash you up too badly.

Right on the money!! Multiple attackers scenario ALWAYS plays differently EVERY SINGLE TIME! One day you can knock one and they just back away trying to defuse the situation(happened to me)...the other day you just get bumrushed and beat up like a pinata...but if you're lucky enough, you get to mess one or two before it's light out for you! With proper training and the right mindset you can acomplish one of two things:

a) Going down, but not that easy and being able to **** one or two in the process!

b) Weather the storm and be able to scape with minor injuries. "Shock and awe" and they'll be suprised enough to back down or let you escape.

track and field is the strongest art against multiple attackers. i keep telling people this, and yet they dont train running.

track and field is good to keep your own skin clean, it aint good when you got to protect your family or your weak friends. Sometimes you have to fight, no matter what. cannot run and hide for ever.

Best multiple attacker defense? Anything with an edge. Because nobody wants to get cut.

Nobody.

But in terms of unarmed defense, I would say throws/trips/sweeps are your good friend as are soccer kicks to your thrown/tripped/swept opponents. Fists to keep 'em off you and low side kicks to keep 'em back.

track and field is good to keep your own skin clean, it aint good when you got to protect your family or your weak friends. Sometimes you have to fight, no matter what. cannot run and hide for ever.

team america world police?

track and field is the strongest art against multiple attackers. i keep telling people this, and yet they dont train running.

Cant beleive it took this long to get a intelligent response about multiple attackers. Listen, if six people are attacking you, dont think about pulling guard. Dont think about your fighting stance, you think where the hell is the door and run. Maybe you can throw your BJJ belt at them as you run by if you wana get some use out of it.

Cant beleive it took this long to get a intelligent response about multiple attackers. Listen, if six people are attacking you, dont think about pulling guard. Dont think about your fighting stance, you think where the hell is the door and run. Maybe you can throw your BJJ belt at them as you run by if you wana get some use out of it.

I'm not throwing my belt, that **** was expensive! I rather throw my colection of brazilian porn stars photos...wait a minute...just run to the door!

You got a point, the best strategy is running off...BUT, I'm thinking more of a can't run scenario! And before you say it..that **** happens a lot where I live...it's kinda of a specialty around these parts.
In a "can't run" scenario what would you do? Wat's the best strategy? Is there even a strategy? At least that's how I see this thread.

throws & locks are good to use an opponent as a shield, ie throw a person into another person

lock one person while standing and use them as a shield

you still need strikes though

I personally wouldnt try and groundfight in a multiple opponent fight, because others could be kicking at your spine, or stomping you

In a "can't run" scenario what would you do? Wat's the best strategy? Is there even a strategy? At least that's how I see this thread.

I dont think there is a strategy. Theres all the basic stuff like keeping your back to all your oppenents, positioning yourself so you only have one person at a time etc etc. Listen though. If theres more then one person looking to kill you, you may just be SOL. I can see myself destroying any man one on one if me or my family/friends are in danger. Hell, Im confident enoug where I may just be able to kill two or three people. In my own opinion Jitsu is not in the picture at all. You need to strike fast and lethaly with every blow to have a chance it a situation like that.

But as you stack the chips, your odds simply become 0 sooner or later. No man can take on a group looking to kill you. I group of untrained people in a bar fight? Maybe. A bunch of ***** kids thinking they are tough because they are in a group?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8202008483113221283

But if anyone has training, or its a confident group looking to kill you, you need to run or take the saftey off your .45. Thats really all there is.

If by self defense you mean escaping and living to fight another day, that probably gives judo a slight edge. The ability to throw the guy on the ground and run away is very nice for your continued health.

If it means winning fights, then probably BJJ gets a hair in front. It's got more ways to finish a fight, and I think Soju Joe is right that more BJJ places put gloves on occasionally.


I think you have hit the nail on the head. Self defense is not a fight within a circle of people, some backing you up and some backing your opponent up, it is a nasty situation like bumping into an angry couple of drunks in an alley or someone grabbing you and saying give us yer fookin money - you want to get out of it a.s.a.p.

What most posters seem to ignore is the fact that Judo teaches you to stay on your feet and avoid getting your head kicked in whereas BJJ teaches you to look for ways of getting the fight to the ground. In terms of self defense I would say that staying on your feet is your #1 priority, followed by throws, with ground fighting as a last resort.

I am not talking delusional TMA 1 vs 10 situations here I am talking about what happens when 1 guy jumps you and his friend is sitting on a wall 10 feet away.

Why then do BJJ fights so often end upon the ground looking for submissions?

In MMA. Obviously no risk of getting stamped on by a third party in a ring. How would you apply your grapple when fighting groups and avoid the ground?


No, just no.

The lack of critical thinking skills demonstrated on this forum makes me weep for the future of humanity.


If you're talking about streetfights, then the answer is, that particular BJJ practitioner is an idiot.


Let me spell it out for you guys since you're not smart enough to figure it out for yourselves. Does BJJ focus on ground training? Yes. Does that mean a halfway intelligent BJJ guy will always look to bring the fight to the ground? NO!

Clear?

I would contend that in a stressful self defense condition you tend to fall back on what you train.


Seriously, this needed further emphasis. This thread is quickly going down the "trollshido" path as opposed to the "intelligent discussion for beginner grapplers" path.

All we need now is the added idiot reference to the streets being littered with glass, lava, and used condoms filled with AIDS semen and how eye pokes and oil checks are not allowed under "teh BJ and J rooolz lolzzz!!!11!!".

Oh, wait, there, I did it......

You won't get idiot references to such things from me. But I do say that the emphasis in Judo of staying on your feet is more practical than the BJJ emphasis on ground fighting.

Hey! Those Judo guys stole our BJJ moves!

(Dials up Rorion to prepare lawsuit)


This is fucking stupid.

And does your tiger crane combination helps YOU against groups and against avoiding the ground? If you get taken to the ground (which will eventually happen), will you have the skills to get up without getting socker-kicked in the head? How does your tiger crane combo helps you with that?

Oh, and this was also fucking stupid.

Do you turtle?

This is a silly contention. Most BJJers also train in MMA, or have had a background on other arts (usually striking, wrestling or... fucking gasp!!!! Judo.)

Generalizations and assumptions are the mother of all screw ups, and this case, your generalizations and assumptions of how all BJJers train makes it a really silly contention that deserves being thrown out of the window like a defective condom.


To you, Madgrenade and all the others who keep coming with these retarded contentions, go sign off to a freaking BJJ/MMA club once and for all and see how people train, specially purple belts and up. Moreover, see what other backgrounds each and everyone of them brings to the table.

This post is based on generalisations because the OP asked a general question - which MA is best for self defense, judo or BJJ. Most BJJers said they are equal, most judoka did too (because they were scared of getting flamed I suspect). I simply raised some critical arguments, just based on the simple question of which one of these, on its own, is more effective for self defense. Most people agree staying on your feet is the way to go if possible, but not on the rest. Between the arguments that have been posted in a civilised manner, we have the following:

BJJ - For
Limited throws if trained
Can use sweeps from guard to get back up.
Can choke from behind while standing (d34dly standing submissions!).
Can win fight on ground if no-one else intervenes.

BJJ - Against
Fighters tend to look for the ground, pull guard etc (especially the lower grades) and may be vulnerable to 3rd parties joining in the fun.
No strikes although many cross train (but then that is another MA).

Judo - For
Can win fight on feet while standing using throws. Very powerful and varied throwing game.
Trained to stay on feet under pressure
Can use sweeps from guard to get back up under pressure
Can win fight on ground if no-one else intervenes (or attacked by BJJer!)

Judo - Against
Tendency to turtle (if can't avoid falling)
No strikes - most don't cross train

Conclusion
Both work for SD but the way I see it, genrally speaking, I give Judo a clear advantage for self defense due to the throwing and staying up aspects of it, most of the other factors cancel each other out. If I was only going to do one for SD I'd choose Judo (unless I lived in a neighbourhood full of BJJ gangsters). It's not that I could care less about self defense but that is the way I see it. Would love to train BJJ as well btw but don't have the time.

Oh and yes I turtle - do you pull guard ?

Let the flames begin


I teach striking to all my Judo students after brown belt.

Is one of your students Austin Powers?

hmmm new question alot of the grips used in judo depend on the gi. how easy is it to transition these grips to the street if it is even possible