bullsh*t.

How so?

bullsh*t.

Care to specify what you're referring to?

[quote=Tanhalen21]Care to specify what you're referring to?[/quote
This bit
Has anyone here heard of neurofeedback treatment for ADD? I know someone who does it at their clinic, but I actually don't know that much about it besides you go a few times and it supposedly cures you of AD(H)D, and I think they are working on applying it on other psychological disorders.

AD(H)D= a bullshit steriotype for people with shitty diets, whom have very few or no good influences in their lives teaching them good diet along with how to deal with lifes problems and who have lazy ass parents that focus more on their problems and rarely focus on solutions to those problems because their parents never showed them eigher,therefore,the cycle of confusion,fear and hate passes on from generation to generation. Theres no such thing as ADHD. people just dont think things through eough to realize that its not our fault that our ancestors passsed on a legacy of falure and confusion, and to realize that the fact is that most people dont have the patience,motivation,discipline,or determination to actually look into things . Most peple are just so desperate for answeres that it leads them to be prone to believe just about any bullshit opionions from any asshole who has himself convinced that he actually knowss what hes talking about! By the time you are all done reading this Im assuming that the first thing thats gonna pop in your head is how did I come up with this. My answer to that question is that I had the worst case scenario of this so called (retartation),or (dizease). Both of my parents are kind of nuts, my (Stepdad)is really lazy, and my mom,shes just an overprotective,obsessive copulsive,crazy,slightly self centered,worryword. Which left me to have to figure everything out on my own. This retardation of mine got so bad during high school that I almost didnt graduate.Lets just say that with a combination of a poor diet and many other factors. It was hell. So how did I get pat it. Good diet of course. High protein,antioxidants(green tea,white tea,red apples,camomile tea),green vegtables,omega 3,6,and 9 fish oils,ginko biloba,phosphatidylserine,water(30oz three times a day laced with about a half a teaspoon of salt to keep the electrolytes in balance),a couple of banannas every day. Last but not least,excersize and read some books instead of watching tv or plaing video games."there is no knowledge that isnt power"

That green tea has L-Theanine in it, which has a similar mechanism of action to Dextromethamphetamine - the premiere ADD drug. Both protein and fish oils encourage neurological growth.

I'm 31 years old and until nine months ago had CRIPPLING and undiagnosed ADD. Since being treated, I have become convinced of the chemical biological basis for personality traits. ADD is highly visible in SPECT scans and EEG readings. Because it is tied to brain function, it also has a high rate of comorbidity with other diseases stemming from the central nervous system.

I can tell by the way you write that you still have issues with impulse control and organizing your thoughts. I'd say it's likely that you'd benefit from a regimen of counseling and medication. There are some excellent drugs out there these days, such as Vyvanse, which have very few side effects.

Consider getting yourself looked at. From the history you provided as well as the run-on post above, it looks like treatment could really turn your life around. There shouldn't be any stigma for ADD. It's common and completely treatable.

AD(H)D= a bullshit steriotype for people with shitty diets, whom have very few or no good influences in their lives teaching them good diet along with how to deal with lifes problems and who have lazy ass parents that focus more on their problems and rarely focus on solutions to those problems because their parents never showed them eigher,therefore,the cycle of confusion,fear and hate passes on from generation to generation. Theres no such thing as ADHD. people just dont think things through eough to realize that its not our fault that our ancestors passsed on a legacy of falure and confusion, and to realize that the fact is that most people dont have the patience,motivation,discipline,or determination to actually look into things . Most peple are just so desperate for answeres that it leads them to be prone to believe just about any bullshit opionions from any asshole who has himself convinced that he actually knowss what hes talking about! By the time you are all done reading this Im assuming that the first thing thats gonna pop in your head is how did I come up with this. My answer to that question is that I had the worst case scenario of this so called (retartation),or (dizease). Both of my parents are kind of nuts, my (Stepdad)is really lazy, and my mom,shes just an overprotective,obsessive copulsive,crazy,slightly self centered,worryword. Which left me to have to figure everything out on my own. This retardation of mine got so bad during high school that I almost didnt graduate.Lets just say that with a combination of a poor diet and many other factors. It was hell. So how did I get pat it. Good diet of course. High protein,antioxidants(green tea,white tea,red apples,camomile tea),green vegtables,omega 3,6,and 9 fish oils,ginko biloba,phosphatidylserine,water(30oz three times a day laced with about a half a teaspoon of salt to keep the electrolytes in balance),a couple of banannas every day. Last but not least,excersize and read some books instead of watching tv or plaing video games."there is no knowledge that isnt power"You are wrong.
ADHD exists. Now are there things you can do that control it with out drugs? Yes.

Are there people who shouldn't be on the drugs at all? Yes.

Please listen to SFGOON (did I really just say that?). He has some good advice.

As with many other disorders, particularly psychiatric disorders, I think a major problem is poor or lazy diagnosis, which may stem from any of a number of reasons.

I've had a diagnosis of IBS for the past several years, which had me resigned to a chronic problem and perhaps taking meds to ameliorate (not eliminate, let alone cure) the symptoms -- because the first doctor I spoke to listened to my description of the symptoms and prescribed a drug on the "Take this, see if it helps" principle. Fair enough, it helped -- only a few years later a better doctor (at a walk-in clinic!) listened to the same list of symptoms and decided to run a simple test. This resulted in the lab-confirmed diagnosis of a bacterial infection that took two 10-day rounds of antibiotics at a total cost to me of $20 to clear up. Thus the first doctor's laziness or negligence in not ordering a simple test cost me several years of pain (and several hundred dollars in medication).

Psychiatric disorders frequently suffer from vague or non-existent diagnostic criteria, especially when it comes to prescribing medication. It's rather like zoological classification before the discovery of DNA: Disorders are classified according to similar symptoms (visible criteria) rather than analysis of underlying causes. Whales used to be classified as fish, even though they're most closely related to hippopotamuses; elephants are more closely related to rock hyraxes than to hippopotamuses or rhinoceroses, but you wouldn't know it to look at them. Medical diagnostic criteria, when diagnoses are made without lab tests, are similar. Prescriptions of antidepressants are made without actually looking at patients' brain activity of neurochemistry; I myself take Cipralex/Escitalopram (originally Celexa/Citalopram) -- the criterion? I was clearly depressed, so they started me on the drug with the least potential for side effects. I was lucky; it worked out great. It's still a crappy criterion, and lots of people get burned. (I know some people severely disillusioned by antidepressants, and others for whom they work great, but whose lives were made severly more miserable during a period of months or years of experimenting to find the proper treatment.)

AD[H]D sounds like a disorder with very much the same problem, only moreso. It's clearly a spectrum disorder, or a set of spectrum disorders, with enormous potential for diagnostic confusion. I do not doubt that there are real disorders there, nor that medication can help sufferers, nor that it is a very good thing that such medication exists and is available to them. But I think it is terrible that so much work goes into developing these medications with no work done or publicised in properly analysing and targeting treatments to people who really do need them. And either this is at least theoretically possible, or the entire model is wrong to begin with -- after all, it is hypothesised (or theorised, or known; I'm no expert) that neurochemical imbalances are at fault; then we should be able to test for them.

In more crass terms, I wish the pharmaceutical business model would shift to make, proportionally, a little more money in precise diagnostics and lab tests (test kits cost money, too!) and a little less (again, proportionally) on treatments.

I also wish that doctors had stiffer backbones and simply said no to parents or patients demanding drugs for which there is clearly no good indication. This is surely a major problem with AD[H]D; it's also a problem with drugs like antibiotics, often prescribed for viral conditions where they are of no use whatsoever (save placebo; and it's better to prescribe inert placebo or vitamins) but select for resistant bacteria.

I was diagnosed with ADD, but I do not buy into the idea that it is really a disorder. I stopped taking speed (my flavor was adderall) a while ago. I would rather wrestle with my brain all the time than take drugs every day. (Ironic from a former dedicated pothead, i know)

It seems to me that the way I think and process information has distinct advantages and disadantages. I don't mind having more trouble focusing, taking speed all of the time comes with its own issues.

I was diagnosed with ADD, but I do not buy into the idea that it is really a disorder. I stopped taking speed (my flavor was adderall) a while ago. I would rather wrestle with my brain all the time than take drugs every day. (Ironic from a former dedicated pothead, i know)

It seems to me that the way I think and process information has distinct advantages and disadantages. I don't mind having more trouble focusing, taking speed all of the time comes with its own issues.
This is your experience. That doesn't mean that other people don't have genuine ADD, or fall on a more severe point in the spectrum, and has no bearing on the argument that there are people for whom drugs are a good idea. I think everyone is in agreement on the point that there are people who are treated unnecessarily. Be cautious in assuming that treatment is therefore unhelpful for everyone.

That green tea has L-Theanine in it, which has a similar mechanism of action to Dextromethamphetamine - the premiere ADD drug. Both protein and fish oils encourage neurological growth.

I'm 31 years old and until nine months ago had CRIPPLING and undiagnosed ADD. Since being treated, I have become convinced of the chemical biological basis for personality traits. ADD is highly visible in SPECT scans and EEG readings. Because it is tied to brain function, it also has a high rate of comorbidity with other diseases stemming from the central nervous system.

I can tell by the way you write that you still have issues with impulse control and organizing your thoughts. I'd say it's likely that you'd benefit from a regimen of counseling and medication. There are some excellent drugs out there these days, such as Vyvanse, which have very few side effects.

Consider getting yourself looked at. From the history you provided as well as the run-on post above, it looks like treatment could really turn your life around. There shouldn't be any stigma for ADD. It's common and completely treatable.

I was going to tell you my life story but SFGOON beat me to it. My ADHD was diagnosised 5 years ago, but I couldn't start treatment until recently due to my extreme clinical depression. I did all the therapy, took all the classes, and tried several drugs, with almost no results, until I got prescribed THE RIGHT MEDICATION FOR ME and WHAM all of a sudden I wasn't depressed any more.

Now I'm going through the same treatment cycle all over again for my ADHD. I've got a life coach, I'm eating, sleeping, and excercising the best that I can, and I'm currently on my 3rd ADHD medication after Ritalin and some other one I can remember didn't work for me.

This is your experience. That doesn't mean that other people don't have genuine ADD, or fall on a more severe point in the spectrum, and has no bearing on the argument that there are people for whom drugs are a good idea. I think everyone is in agreement on the point that there are people who are treated unnecessarily. Be cautious in assuming that treatment is therefore unhelpful for everyone.

I really have no idea what it was in my post that made you assume so much about my position, unless it was the opinion that ADD is not a disorder.

What I meant by this is that classifying ADD as a disorder is something I see as a product of a society that belives there is a proper way to think and process information. That if two people are equally intellegent, but one of them has a brain that functions in a way that results in him scoring lower on a test than his counterpart, it should be considered a disorder.

I also believe, however, that the way we live is pretty much totally fucked and won't last too long anyway.

I really have no idea what it was in my post that made you assume so much about my position, unless it was the opinion that ADD is not a disorder.
Yes.


What I meant by this is that classifying ADD as a disorder is something I see as a product of a society that belives there is a proper way to think and process information. That if two people are equally intellegent, but one of them has a brain that functions in a way that results in him scoring lower on a test than his counterpart, it should be considered a disorder.
Classifying cancer as a disorder is something I see as a product of a society that believes there is a proper way to engage in mitosis and apoptosis.

Classifying acute C-diff colitis as a disorder is something I see as a product of a society that believes there is a proper balance of intestinal microbes.

...Of course classifying anything as a disorder requires us to accept a particular range of conditions as "healthy". Be a problem grossly physiological or psychological, this will always be the case. The relevant question isn't whether the classification is based on a set of externally imposed criteria. The relevant question -- which you presumably meant to challenge -- is whether ADD is a disorder in a relevant sense (one that genuinely causes problems for sufferers) or only based on external opinions (c.f. the olden-time classification of homosexuality as a disorder).

Some sufferers of ADD really do think that their quality of life improves very significantly when they get their condition under control. Some of them have spoken out in this thread. Others find their impulsiveness or inability to focus damaging their personal relationship -- I've had the dubious pleasure of witnessing this in two people close to me. If the people who choose the treatment want it, then why should it be wrong for them to do so?

On a different note, relating to the "just a different way of thinking" line of thought, you might enjoy the sci fi novel, This Alien Shore, which explores it with a range of conditions such as Asperger's and MPD.

Yeah, we are pretty much in agreement here. You stated my postion a bit more eloquently than I did.

Notice that I never told people not to take Adderall. When I critisize the use of pharmacutical drugs that modify personality, I'm not trying to say don't take them, or that the need for them isn't real, but rather that the reasons that people find them nessisary often stem from societal contitions that I find to be harmful to humanity as a whole.


Also, that book sounds awesome, I'll check it out.

I was diagnosed early in life, as were my two brothers (yay having a nurse practicioner mom), but we were always given the choice of whether to take medication. My elder brother has it less severely than me and the middle child. My other brother was always on it and "needed" it, meaning there was significant educational and social improvement noticed by himself and my parents. I started taking it in middle school and while my mother says my schoolwork improved, I don't remember feeling any benefit from Ritalin, so I stopped when I entered high school.

I can see now where my ADD comes in, but just the fact of recognizing and working with and around it has things under control for me. I let the hyperactivity come out by talking outside of hearing range of customers of any damn thing that's on my mind (which confuses a lot of my co-workers who only get half the conversation as I run around), but that keeps the analytical side of my brain free to keep any mental to-do lists up and running.

I also am aware that I can't rely on my short term memory, especially when it comes to lists. I'll tell people all the time who are giving me things to do that the moment it hits more than five things, if I don't write it down then I'll forget just about everything they tell me. Which isn't a problem because I invest in notepads and a nice digital recorder now.

I certainly agree that it exists as a disorder, but i am curious as to it's cause and/or reason for increasing. I wonder how much is hereditary, and how much is due to all the television/internet/instant-ized culture we have today.

Also, as someone mentioned before, I have had fun watching TV not for the shows, but to count how long an image stays on the screen before it cuts to a new image or camera angle. The average for all TV I'd put just below 3 seconds, with the longest holds on things like a shopping network and sports events, and the shortest obviously on cartoons and commercials. Still, once you notice and pay attention to it, it's kinda freaky how fast the image shifts are.

My oldest has ADD we tried the drug thing - forget it, hate that ****. 3 weeks was enough to convince me it sucks.

For him the answer is sports, sports and more sports.

If I detailed the time and money I spent on his sports it would make me cry (more)

But as long it keeps him normal

I'll tell you the education system for high school sucks real bad here. No gym this semester?

WTF!?!?!?

Kids need gym. Tire them out so they can learn.

rgagrggegeggghgghehg!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's why I am doing private school for him next year and will be broke again.


I can't agree more with the above sentiments on activities.

If you want "real" psychology on how to control bad behaviour, you need to watch The Dog Whisperer and that really hot British chick Victoria Stillwell(?). Most bad dog behaviours can be controlled with sufficient exercise and consistent handling. Kids are not much different. We're all just mammals baby. Me and my daughter dig Animal Planet.....

I can't agree more with the above sentiments on activities.

If you want "real" psychology on how to control bad behaviour, you need to watch The Dog Whisperer and that really hot British chick Victoria Stillwell(?). Most bad dog behaviours can be controlled with sufficient exercise and consistent handling. Kids are not much different. We're all just mammals baby. Me and my daughter dig Animal Planet.....

While I agree with you, real ADD can't be treated with exercise. In fact, those with the disorder tend to work out like maniacs simply because it temporarily puts them on an even mental keel.

If you have it, the amphetamines will work. If not, it just tends to make the behavior worse.