Lack of perfect grammar is pretty far from illiterate. Drop the Ad Feminem mode. There is plenty to attack in the arguments here, you don't need to insult folks.

Fixed.

I was just making sure what your claims were. Where is the data to support this claim, I would be interested in seeing the numbers on this. I looked at the world population of prisons and the number seems to be growing not shrinking, so I would be interested to see where you are pulling your numbers.

I have heard that crime is on the decrease, at least in the US but I couldn't be bothered getting the figures.

**** it, I'll google it: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

I wasn't really talking about crime rates, more about a general social maturing. With regards to most modern, western countries there has never been a greater regard for people's rights and freedoms. We don't execute people in public anymore, we don't view beating your wife as normal. We don't think it's OK to make people fight to the death for public entertainment. If you look at more modern times, like 100 years ago it was normal for a white westerner to be racist. There are still racists but the point is we don't think of it as normal anymore. This is not linked to religion, but as TBK said if such a civilizing effect has been ongoing while at the same time religion is on the decline then we know that it isn't religion that is advancing our ethical standards.

Here's a table for the US going back to '73:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/viortrdtab.htm

Here's a table for the US going back to '73:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/viortrdtab.htm

And here is one going back to 1900

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/hmrt.htm

That, my friend, is in fact a graph.

I have heard that crime is on the decrease, at least in the US but I couldn't be bothered getting the figures

If you heard these things and took them to also be true, why did you not bother to go and do the make sure they were true.


I wasn't really talking about crime rates, more about a general social maturing. With regards to most modern, western countries there has never been a greater regard for people's rights and freedoms.

So there is a greater regard for rights and freedoms, but the prison populations are at their highest ever, how do you explain this?


We don't execute people in public anymore, we don't view beating your wife as normal. We don't think it's OK to make people fight to the death for public entertainment. If you look at more modern times, like 100 years ago it was normal for a white westerner to be racist. There are still racists but the point is we don't think of it as normal anymore. This is not linked to religion, but as TBK said if such a civilizing effect has been ongoing while at the same time religion is on the decline then we know that it isn't religion that is advancing our ethical standards.

I just dont see how you can look at some areas so well, and completely miss others...it is the big picture we are looking at, not part of the big picture.

That, my friend, is in fact a graph.

LOL!!!!! :owneddanc ...

If you heard these things and took them to also be true, why did you not bother to go and do the make sure they were true.

I didn't care to.



So there is a greater regard for rights and freedoms, but the prison populations are at their highest ever, how do you explain this?

Becuase privatized prisons are a growth industry. Please don't mistake what I said to mean that everything is great and nobody ever gets fucked over by institutions of power. Its still better than its ever been before.




I just dont see how you can look at some areas so well, and completely miss others...it is the big picture we are looking at, not part of the big picture.

Becuase we were talking about how in the west, religion is on the decline yet people's attitudes are becoming more civilized. So religion isn't the driving force of our ethical evolution.

I didn't care to.

Quite the fundamentalist mentality dont you think?..taking something to be true without first employing the scientific method


Becuase privatized prisons are a growth industry. Please don't mistake what I said to mean that everything is great and nobody ever gets fucked over by institutions of power. Its still better than its ever been before.

Then what say you to the graph I posted earlier, this is not about prisons.

What are you basing this "better" on? Somethings have gotten better, but others have gotten worse, there is no net gain here.


Becuase we were talking about how in the west, religion is on the decline yet people's attitudes are becoming more civilized. So religion isn't the driving force of our ethical evolution.

By more civilized do you mean a group mentality over an individual mentality?(some sort of democracy v socialism kinda thing?

Quite the fundamentalist mentality dont you think?..taking something to be true without first employing the scientific method.

No.



What are you basing this "better" on? Somethings have gotten better, but others have gotten worse, there is no net gain here.

There are various things that people used to consider normal that we now recognize as wrong.



By more civilized do you mean a group mentality over an individual mentality?(some sort of democracy v socialism kinda thing?

Not really political systems, more like what most people consider morally right or wrong.

No.

Ah so sometimes it is ok to say screw it to the scientific method, as long as you heard it somewhere?

Why do you guys play Zap's silly game and fall for his bullshit? He asked to show that violent crime is on a decline, so you do.. then he moves the goalposts and says "then why are prison populations highest ever?" C'mon.

Oh, and prison populations are highest in the USA because of the stupid, dumbass drug policies we have.

I'm a douche! Hooray!!!

Fixed.

Why do you guys play Zap's silly game and fall for his bullshit? He asked to show that violent crime is on a decline, so you do..

No... no you havent. Check the table...er I mean graph I posted earlier.



then he moves the goalposts and says "then why are prison populations highest ever?" C'mon.

Prison populations have increased because there are more laws restricting liberties, which elucidates my other point I was making...yes we have moved on in some areas, but in others we have regressed.


Oh, and prison populations are highest in the USA because of the stupid, dumbass drug policies we have.

LOOK LOOK LOOK!!!!! We agree fully and whole heartedly on something

Fixed.


LIES!!!! He is French...and you said showers


See my profile pic for full humor

LIES!!!! He is French...and you said showers


See my profile pic for full humor

Well, then it was apropos, oui? :gaygay: