So, I'm here in Japan and I have been searching for a good art to study (I'm really interested in the koryu, but can't find any in my area). I started training at the local Judo dojo, instead.

I have never studied Judo before, only had experience in a hybrid art and two other Japanese arts. At first, most of them were very cautious of me because of my background in those other arts. I find that I have a very difficult time getting them off their feet during randori by using any type of throw. They are just much better than I in that department. I think part of the reason is that most of the things I know how to do effectively are illegal in Judo and I get yelled at when I do them (I didn't know any of the rules at first). Most, if not all, joint locks are illegal, you can't touch the head at all, no grabbing limbs - only the gi, no striking, no atemi, it's really annoying. It seems like the only legal things you can do in Judo are variations on some leg sweeps, hip/shoulder throws, trips, and just basically pushing your opponent around.

But, I find that I excel at ground work. But, again, most of the stuff I know how to do is illegal. I've tapped my partner out a few times using some chokes and I got an armbar/choke on one time (don't know the name of the technique...basically from a guard position, trapping opponents arm in between your legs while getting a figure-four type of leg positioning around their neck and applying a choke with legs while also applying an arm bar).

I find that once I get mount on my oppent I'm at a loss of what to do next. I basically just sit there whith nothing to do. Once, I even managed to trap my oppents arms and legs while sitting there, in mount. But, the match kept going because I somehow didn't manage to get ippon? I mean, I could have just sat there and pounded this guy in the face.

I like Judo, but I'm not sure where to go from here.

I also got injured a few weeks ago and have been on a hiatus since.

My partner got a little over-zealeous and tried to seoinage me in randori but he didn't get his center of gravity in the right spot and instead of lifting me for the throw, he just bent over and lost his balance with the weight of me on his back. We both went down and because my arms were trapped and I couldn't breakfall from that position, my shoulder slammed into the ground.

Basically, AC joint dislocation and numerous bone contusions on my clavicle, humerous, and scapula.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about Judo and I don't act like an ass in practice. I buckle down and try to learn.

But, because of my studies in other arts, it has sort of jaded me to what goes on in Judo.

Any suggestions?

learn the rules, play the game, have fun with it.

give this a read: http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html

it attempts to explain why judo has some "silly" rules nowadays, and the historian opines that bjj/gjj escaped those changes and is closer to the "original" judo.

as for being in the mount (tate-shiho-gatame), learn some armbars and collar chokes from there. if you're training for mma or self-defense, you might want to learn those anyway, because in the course of pounding someone in the face.. they might give you one. :)

it sounds like you did a triangle armbar (sangaku-gatame), also, which is a great technique and perfectly legal in judo.

if you're strong on the ground, you will be at a disadvantage in judo competition, but you can still play to your strengths if you want to win matches. you might consider shifting your focus from "ippon" throws to "easier" throws which get you a lower score and put you in a good position for groundwork. you will, of course, have to 1. take them down successfully and 2. aggressively pursue a pin, choke, or armlock, but people do win judo matches this way, and groundwork was preserved in judo so people could do exactly that.

of course, if you're just in need of a reminder why judo is cool, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]CUne9Xg55og

Most, if not all, joint locks are illegal, you can't touch the head at all, no grabbing limbs - only the gi, no striking, no atemi, it's really annoying. It seems like the only legal things you can do in Judo are variations on some leg sweeps, hip/shoulder throws, trips, and just basically pushing your opponent around.


In Judo sparring you can throw your opponent with anyone of the 67 legitimate Kodokan throws or any other throw or take down you care to try. You can also arm bar or choke your opponent. Judo also has leg locks they just can't be used in free sparring. Judo also has some limited atemi waza usually learned through its Kata.

So basically your complaint is that Judo sparring has no striking.

All I can say is **** off you are a retard.

Go and take a boxing class and complain throws are not allowed.




But, I find that I excel at ground work. But, again, most of the stuff I know how to do is illegal........... I mean, I could have just sat there and pounded this guy in the face.

:knob:



I find that once I get mount on my oppent I'm at a loss of what to do next. I basically just sit there whith nothing to do.

As I thought you know **** all about grappling. Go and post on a Ninja or Kungfu forum.

In Judo sparring you can throw your opponent with anyone of the 67 legitimate Kodokan throws or any other throw or take down you care to try. You can also arm bar or choke your opponent. Judo also has leg locks they just can't be used in free sparring. Judo also has some limited atemi waza usually learned through its Kata.

So basically your complaint is that Judo sparring has no striking.

All I can say is **** off you are a retard.

Go and take a boxing class and complain throws are not allowed.





:knob:




As I thought you know **** all about grappling. Go and post on a Ninja or Kungfu forum.

Wow. Way to over react.

You misunderstood my tone. Why did you just instantly jump to cussing at me and calling me a retard?

I have no interest in discussing anything with you. Go away.

learn the rules, play the game, have fun with it.

give this a read: http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html

it attempts to explain why judo has some "silly" rules nowadays, and the historian opines that bjj/gjj escaped those changes and is closer to the "original" judo.

as for being in the mount (tate-shiho-gatame), learn some armbars and collar chokes from there. if you're training for mma or self-defense, you might want to learn those anyway, because in the course of pounding someone in the face.. they might give you one. :)

it sounds like you did a triangle armbar (sangaku-gatame), also, which is a great technique and perfectly legal in judo.

if you're strong on the ground, you will be at a disadvantage in judo competition, but you can still play to your strengths if you want to win matches. you might consider shifting your focus from "ippon" throws to "easier" throws which get you a lower score and put you in a good position for groundwork. you will, of course, have to 1. take them down successfully and 2. aggressively pursue a pin, choke, or armlock, but people do win judo matches this way, and groundwork was preserved in judo so people could do exactly that.

of course, if you're just in need of a reminder why judo is cool, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]CUne9Xg55og

Thanks for the info.

I'm not training for MMA, nor have I trained in anything similar to MMA.

I do know the rules now, I was just giving a history of what it was like when I first started training in Judo.

As for mount...I know armbars and chokes. But, I'm not allowed to apply armbars during randori; they don't want any of the students to get injured because they are still in Junior and Senior High.

Yeah, I learned that being strong on the ground is a disadvantage because you need to actually GET your oppent on the ground first. That's the hard part!

I don't really focus on the ippon awarding throws. I just innitiate any throw that happens to come up (usually unsuccesfully).

As for atemi, striking, or kata...I have seen none of them yet. No kata have been taught or demonstrated.

Also, a lot of the chokes I know how to do are illegal. I guess you can't grab your own limbs while applying a choke (only the gi)? You can't choke from in front of uke with his body in a bent-over postion (under your armpit)? You can't touch uke's head or place your hand on his head while choking? You obviously can't cross-face. You can't apply upward or downward pressure against the neck? You can't grab, twist, or otherwise manipulate tendons or muscles (I know a few ways of grabbing or sheering muscle with the Ulna bone in the forearm). I could go on and on. But, I'm sure you get the idea.

It's just really difficult because all the things I've been previously trained to do are now out the window.

I'm just used to other forms of body manipulation; mostly tendon/muscle/joint sheering and torsional sriking. My background is in striking, grappling/throwing, and a little bit of ground fighting. I've never trained in MMA or the like...just some traditional Japanese systems and a gendai system.

Judo is forcing me to unlearn all of that stuff and I'm not sure I want to. Judo is fun, but I don't think it's for me.

I'm gonna stick it out for the rest of the time I'm in Japan and continure to train with an open mind, though.

To any of you hot-heads like the previous poster, I'm not bashing Judo. So, go annoy someone else.

What did you study before that made them suspicious?

What did you study before that made them suspicious?

I have a small background in some older forms of Japanese Jujutsu and a modern art that has some similarities to what Taika Oyata (Ryute Renmei) does. I studied Aikido for some time, but that wasn't what they were worried about.

They were more cautious of my Jujutsu background and more weary of some of the things I shared about the modern art I study.

But, since most of that stuff is illegal in Judo, they have loosend up a bit. I'm sure they were just sizing me up before training got too serious.

Here is a vid to give you hope, the man in the white belt is BJ Penn and he likes going to the ground and submitting them like you do. His gone to a judo competition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUNgJPsUb1A

Thanks for the info.

I'm not training for MMA, nor have I trained in anything similar to MMA.

I do know the rules now, I was just giving a history of what it was like when I first started training in Judo.

As for mount...I know armbars and chokes. But, I'm not allowed to apply armbars during randori; they don't want any of the students to get injured because they are still in Junior and Senior High.

Yeah, I learned that being strong on the ground is a disadvantage because you need to actually GET your oppent on the ground first. That's the hard part!

I don't really focus on the ippon awarding throws. I just innitiate any throw that happens to come up (usually unsuccesfully).

As for atemi, striking, or kata...I have seen none of them yet. No kata have been taught or demonstrated.

Also, a lot of the chokes I know how to do are illegal. I guess you can't grab your own limbs while applying a choke (only the gi)? You can't choke from in front of uke with his body in a bent-over postion (under your armpit)? You can't touch uke's head or place your hand on his head while choking? You obviously can't cross-face. You can't apply upward or downward pressure against the neck? You can't grab, twist, or otherwise manipulate tendons or muscles (I know a few ways of grabbing or sheering muscle with the Ulna bone in the forearm). I could go on and on. But, I'm sure you get the idea.

It's just really difficult because all the things I've been previously trained to do are now out the window.

I'm just used to other forms of body manipulation; mostly tendon/muscle/joint sheering and torsional sriking. My background is in striking, grappling/throwing, and a little bit of ground fighting. I've never trained in MMA or the like...just some traditional Japanese systems and a gendai system.

Judo is forcing me to unlearn all of that stuff and I'm not sure I want to. Judo is fun, but I don't think it's for me.

I'm gonna stick it out for the rest of the time I'm in Japan and continure to train with an open mind, though.

To any of you hot-heads like the previous poster, I'm not bashing Judo. So, go annoy someone else.

sounds like you need to get into NHB/MMA. :) that crowd usually doesn't say "you can't do that" unless it involves breaking fingers or eye-gouging.

As for mount...I know armbars and chokes. But, I'm not allowed to apply armbars during randori; they don't want any of the students to get injured because they are still in Junior and Senior High.Some schools have regulations against certain submissions if you are 14 or younger (could be 14, could be 12, depending on the school.) How old are you?

Some schools have regulations against certain submissions if you are 14 or younger (could be 14, could be 12, depending on the school.) How old are you?

I'm 23. The other people I train with are in high school and a few adults.

I'm 23. The other people I train with are in high school and a few adults.

That's a bit surprising. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most kids in Japan be doing Judo through their school club and not at a private dojo? :icon_scra

As for your complaints about not being able to do a lot of stuff, just think of this as a chance to work on your fundamental grappling technique.

I have a question:

When someone says randori, what is your first reaction?

Are you excited to test your skills? Compete?

That's a bit surprising. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't most kids in Japan be doing Judo through their school club and not at a private dojo? :icon_scra

As for your complaints about not being able to do a lot of stuff, just think of this as a chance to work on your fundamental grappling technique.

No, the dojo here is owned and operated by the town. It is called the "Budo Center." That's where you go to study Wado-ryu Karate, Kendo, Judo, and Kyudo.

I have a question:

When someone says randori, what is your first reaction?

Are you excited to test your skills? Compete?

No reaction, really. I just do it; it's an opportunity to learn.

A few questions.
1. Where are you in Japan?
2. How do you justify using techniques that can possible harm your partner while training?
3. Do you speak Japanese?


That being said if you are at a recreational club, which is what it sounds like, they are not gearing up for war. They are doing Judo to stay fit. If you are interested in going beyond just rec training you need to go to a university club or police dojo.

Judo techniques and rules are there so you can keep coming back every day and train. Consider yourself lucky that you are at a rec club because you would have been thrown through the wall or off the mats by now if you keep that up trying self defense moves while in class. Randori is a great time to develop your skill sets in nage waza and ne waza and at the same time get in a great work out. Cranking on peoples heads, shoving your hands in their face and scratching at eye balls is just juvenile. I really don't care how effective they are because we all know if you poke someone in the eye they will react to it. Again the rules are there to make sure you don't get hurt along with you partner. Atemi waza is in the same category. Getting punched in your **** is not many peoples idea of a good time.

Another important note here. Judo has been around for awhile. Judo training and matches have been recorded and studied long before many other arts even came to fruition. The reason behind all of the "silly" rules in the dojo is because of injury potential. A technique being banned is not because it was ineffective or too effective. It was banned because even the proper application caused an injury too many time. Yes it allowed YOU to win the match but your uke was laid up for 6 months and not allowed to train. Which in turn hurt the school as a whole because YOU was without a good training partner.

I will also bet a dime to a dollar you was 100% resisting the throw which caused the shoulder injury.

More importantly here you have a chance to expand your MA training in a country with good dojos. If this club isn't "tough" enough for you head to the next train station and there will be 2 more.

I hate it when guys complain about the "silly" or illegal moves. They are here to protect you just like speed limits and stop lights.