Hey there bullshido, I need some help!
I'm 18, 5'9 and weighing in in the light 180's. My dilemma is that I've got a bit of a belly, years of sitting on my butt playing video games for hours have left me with the consequences. I went from a diet consisting of soda and junk food, with the biggest form of excersize being the walk to school (120 feet or so), I was around the 260 range at one point.

I've definitely come a ways to the point in which I'm running almost every day (about an hours worth of running/jogging/walking 3 1/2 - 4 miles.) I've had maybe 2 glasses of soda in the past 3 months, everything else has strictly been water. My key thing now is to try and lose the belly and be able to run longer/harder.

I definitely plan on participating in a marathon early spring of '08. In the mean time I start Muay Thai tuesday, I plan on going 2 times a week + the day they have conditioning. Does anyone have any recommendations on a) foods that would be a wiser choice towards the caloric intake, and b) effective ways to increase my running ability?

I also have a weight set at my house (circa 1980's orbatron), but it gets the job done I just need to get the motivation to keep at it.

All helpful thoughts, flames, tips and that jazz are totally welcome.

Getting in shape to do a marathon is a LOT of work, and may take longer than the six-ish months between now and then. But if you can pull it off, that makes it even more of a feat.

Look around the Physical Training forum for the cardio/weights stuff, there's a wealth of info in there. Intervals are great way to build up cardio fast.

Diet... oh man where to start?
The most important points:

Only eat as much as you need, no more (your body will store this as fat) and no less (you'll lose energy and your level of physical fitness will actually go down, despite fat and weight loss). If you're sedentary, eat very little. If you're very active, eat like a beast.
Make sure your carb calories come from complex carbohydrates (starches in potatoes and whole wheat), and avoid high-glycemic carbs (simple sugars like fructose in soda and glucose in white bread)
Fats are absolutely vital, but carbs should constitute the majority of your caloric intake
VITAMINS. Eat dark leafy green vegetables, carrots, tomatoes... anything red or green is a good bet. as a rule of thumb, deeper colors and less cooking is better. for example, cooked broccoli is less nutritious than raw broccoli. iceberg lettuce is less nutritious than baby spinach. steamed string beans are less nutritious than sauteéd string beans (the water leaches out the nutrients, but its okay in soup because you eat the broth).
Multiple small meals are better than one big one. It keeps your metabolism up and keeps you at a constant energy level, as opposed to the up-and-down 2-3 big meal cycle we're accustomed to have
Saturated fats are bad, trans fats are positively evil. The former is necessary in small quantities, the latter has no biological function and cannot be processed effectively by your body

I have a related question that I didn't feel like it was worth starting a new thread for.

I have gone, in the last 4-5 months from doing no excersize and eating like a pig to doing san shou/sanda 4 times a week and eating like a pig.

I'm getting in much better shape, but if I want to see continued results, am I going to have to actually start eating right?

Or can I just continue to work out and eat whatever the **** I feel like?

Well, it all depends on what "continued results" mean to you? A leaner, more toned you? More muscle? More stamina? Better performance in Sanda?

Also, what do you mean by "eating like a pig"? Eating junk crap, or eating a lot? If it's good food, eat like a pig, man.

You should certainly do better by switching to a better diet. People may be in better shape than they were 6 months ago, but they may still have high levels of bad cholesterol, for example.

On another note, people tend to radically switch from one diet (.ie. junk food) to a squeaky clean one overnight, and as a result, they set themselves to failure. Change should be gradual. See the sticky threads in these forums for recommendations on diet and nutrition.

Also, one word of caution to anyone interested: having a six-pack is not necesarily an indication of a good health, specially if you play sports (combat sports in particular). A lot of people show these nice six packs, and good for them. But the price they pay is that they can't run/grapple/hit/explode for **** in an explosive sport.

If that's not their goal, then that's fine. But if that's their goal (and yours), then proceed with caution. Some people can have a six pack easely. Others cannot perform in sports well unless they have a bit of fatty padding in their bellies. That's just how it is.

To follow up, thanks again for your insightful information, I guess my main issue now is that I'm stuck at 180! I can't seem to go down anymore, I've heard mention of hitting a brick wall, but this is starting to get frustrating.

I'm hesistant to cut down even more so my caloric intake due to the fact that I'm eating only what I need, (most of the time, I do cheat, who doesn't?) but I know I'm not completely satisfied with my current look/feel.

Here's what my current diet concludes:
-Cornflakes/Sweetened raspberry + cornflakes cereal. Skim milk is all that I drink.
-Regularly drinking water, soda free for months.
- Lunch for the past couple of weeks has been turkey (cold lean cut) with lettuce on a whole wheat/grain bread. + granola bar (100 calorie, kind of high in sugars though)
- Dinner has been generally before 8 pm (not sure if it matters), compromised of really whatever lebanese cuisine my mother has concocted for the evening. Besides that chicken, salmon, sometimes tuna. Generally nothing super saturated in fat.

I do Muay Thai 2x a week, followed by running/walking/jogging at least every other day, a good 3-5 miles per run.

I'm really looking for some simple meals that other people eat that's worked for them rather well. I've noticed that my metabolism has peaked a bit and I find myself hungrier quicker, today I splurged a bit and definitely ate more then my fair share.

I have access to a lot of various super markets, of different blends and food types. So as obscure as it is, I think my odds of finding certain foods are fairly good. What do you all recommend?

Marathon training is somewhat at odds with training to fight. However, since you are 18 and a relative beginner, it really won't make that much difference for quite some time.

I know three people who run marathons regularly. One is older and still a bit heavyset, but does it for fun (best time 4:25). Another went from never having run a race in his life to the top 2% of the world inside of 5 years (best time: 2:31). He was never heavy, but still eats like a horse while having dropped an additional 30 lbs. He's also about a foot taller than just about everyone at that level - which is kind of an amusing sight because there are usually 2 or more short people running and "drafting" directly behind him during a race.

The last person I know started in similar physical shape as you describe. He bought this book and swears by it: 4 Months to a 4-Hour Marathon (http://www.amazon.com/4-Months-4-Hour-Marathon-Updated/dp/0399532595/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7793626-7914316?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192930348&sr=8-1).

Thanks for your response Tom!
On a side note, I most likely will need to change my diet to lean towards more of a combat oriented change in my life style, as MT becomes more of a bigger event in my life. Do you have any suggestions?

Also, one word of caution to anyone interested: having a six-pack is not necesarily an indication of a good health, specially if you play sports (combat sports in particular). A lot of people show these nice six packs, and good for them. But the price they pay is that they can't run/grapple/hit/explode for **** in an explosive sport.

If that's not their goal, then that's fine. But if that's their goal (and yours), then proceed with caution. Some people can have a six pack easely. Others cannot perform in sports well unless they have a bit of fatty padding in their bellies. That's just how it is.

:biggrin: I think these guys beg to differ... Maybe if you're talking about light-heavies and up but the lower weight classes (like me) don't seem to have problems keeping the 6-pack and fighting.

There's no reason you can't look great AND fight well.

http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/fightfinder/Pictures/roger_huerta.jpg

http://www.insidefighting.com/images/photos/MMA/UFC63/Lauzon_pose.jpg

http://www.ufcfightnews.com/UFC71/report/images/liddell-rampage0080.jpg

Also, one word of caution to anyone interested: having a six-pack is not necesarily an indication of a good health, specially if you play sports (combat sports in particular). A lot of people show these nice six packs, and good for them. But the price they pay is that they can't run/grapple/hit/explode for **** in an explosive sport.

Some good info in this thread :thumbsup:

Just out of interest, why is that? Is it that they are not eating enough to properly fuel their bodies in order to get the six pack or something? Obviously Fedor doesn't have anything close to a six pack, and he's bad ass, but I'm just wondering why it could be detrimental. I've always thought it would be cool to impress chicks.

You wanna shed fat? You should know your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate). It's the number of calories burned daily from essential bodily functions, discounting physical exertion. I believe it includes brain/nerve activity, maintaining body heat, liver/kidney, skeletal muscle, other organs, and the beating of the heart. I could be wrong, so just check the wiki article. Anyway, the equation to calculate your BMR for men is as follows:

BMR= 66.4630 + (13.7516 x weight) + (5.0033 x height) - (6.7550 x age)

Weight is in kilograms, height is in centimeters, age is in years, and BMR is in kilocalories (calories). I'm sure you can find some online BMR calculators if you're too lazy to whip out a calculator and do it on your own. Adding this number to your exercise for the day will produce a conservative estimate of the day's calories expended. I say conservative because there's also trivial exertion and a few other things that can expend maybe 50 calories per day. Just make sure that your calories expended are always higher than your calories consumed, and you'll start to shed fat.

As far as running training goes, I don't know much. But that's my little token of wisdom.

The TL;DR version of that is "Be inefficient".

:biggrin: I think these guys beg to differ... Maybe if you're talking about light-heavies and up but the lower weight classes (like me) don't seem to have problems keeping the 6-pack and fighting.No disrespect dude, but you can be to differ as much as you like. This is a subject that has been beaten to death and yet it appears again and again.

:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

This needs to be repeated, and perhaps I'll create a sticky or an article on this subject so that whenever somebody makes this argument, I'll reply back with a link to it.

But until then, this is what needs to be said:

The individuals you chose as examples have the genetics to pull that off. Not everybody has those physical characteristics. This is a fact. In particular, this is a fact for mesomorph and some ectomorphs (yep, some ectomorphs cannot perform anaerobic activities with a low body fat %).

OTH, a well defined slim look can be pulled by most endomorphs and some ectomorphs (not all) for high anaerobic activities such as combat sports. This phenomenon occurs in all weight classes, from bantamweight to heavyweight.

Looking at your examples, this needs to be said:

J-Lau is an endomorph that can pull a lean physique with abs showing.

Rampage and Huerta are ectomorphs that can remain lean without losing much muscle mass. They do not suffer from having a low body fat when performing in combat sports.

And that's the key phrase: performing in combat sports. Anyone, and I mean, anyone can get a six pack and retain it... so long as the only thing they do is lift weights, eat properly, **** and sleep.

Make them perform a highly anaerobic activity and many of these individuals either crash or have to add additional body fat to avoid wasting and dissapearing into thin air.

And this has nothing to do with their athletic capabilities or discipline. It has to do with their genetic make-up and the natural weight and body-weight composition that works best for them for a given athletic activity.

It is naive to think that just because Rampage, J-Lau and Huerta can sport a defined abdominal section when performing in combat sports, that's an indictation that everybody at any weight class can do the same during the performance of physical activities in general and anaerobic-demanding activities such as combat sports in particular.

Some good info in this thread :thumbsup:

Just out of interest, why is that? Is it that they are not eating enough to properly fuel their bodies in order to get the six pack or something? Obviously Fedor doesn't have anything close to a six pack, and he's bad ass, but I'm just wondering why it could be detrimental. I've always thought it would be cool to impress chicks.Genetics, dude, genetics.

Your optimal weight class and body fat % are a function of two variables: your genetics or body type (ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph) and the activity in question.

First, you need to look at your genetics, your body type (and to a point, your age.) Then you look at the physical activity you want to engage. Those two will determine the best weight and body fat % with which to perform best in the given activity.

If you choose to actively participate in marathons, you will perform best at a given weight and body fat %.

If you choose bodybuilding, those numbers will be much greater. Same if you choose to do powerlifting or something like that.

If you choose a highly anaerobic activity such as combat sports, then your numbers will be different.

In very simplistic terms (which hold true for most human beings), when you subject yourself to the training regime required for such a physical activity, the outcome will be one of the following two, which tend to be mutually exclusive:

A). Your body will get leaner without losing lean mass (muscle), and you will perform best in the given sport.

B). Your body will lose lean mass (muscle) while retaining the same amount of body fat before engaging in the sport (thus increasing your total body fat %), and you will perform best in the given sport.

C.) Your body will not lose lean mass, but will demand to increase its body fat %, with which it will perform best.

D.) You will increase muscle mass (meaning you were severely underweight or with a poor diet and health), and you will perform best.

E.) You will crash, exhaust, run out of gas or get sick and fail to achieve your best performance levels until you let your body fit options A, B, C, or D.

Every person has a body which is uniquely tuned, and which perform best for a given activity when allowed to have certain characteristics (body fat %, lean mass, etc.) Fedor (and his brother Alexander) seem to be somewhere between being endomorphic and mesomorphic.

Arlovsky and Couture OTH, they are truly mesomorphic and have no problem in pulling that off.

At the end of the day, what's important is to achieve the correct body composition that allows you to perform best in a given sport. If that body composition happens to be one which you like, then you are a lucky one and kudos to you. :icon_thum

If not, oh well, blame it on Darwin ;)

"Every person has a body which is uniquely tuned, and which perform best for a given activity when allowed to have certain characteristics (body fat %, lean mass, etc.) Fedor (and his brother Alexander) seem to be somewhere between being endomorphic and mesomorphic."

Yeah, it's always a mystery how things will play out when you work out. I say it's all trial and error.

Genetics, dude, genetics.

.... lots of appropriate and well thought out commentary posted here, as usual, by El Macho...



Every person has a body which is uniquely tuned, and which perform best for a given activity when allowed to have certain characteristics (body fat %, lean mass, etc.) Fedor (and his brother Alexander) seem to be somewhere between being endomorphic and mesomorphic.


If not, oh well, blame it on Darwin ;)


Nice post.

Side note - highlighted para describes me - so clearly I'm destined for greatness as I'm just like the Emelianenko brothers.

Yeah baby! good mood for the rest of the day as I wallow in the glory that will surely be mine.

* Ectomorphic body type is characterized by long arms and legs and a short upper body and narrow shoulders, and supposedly have a higher proportion of nervous tissue. They also have long and thin muscles. Ectomorphs usually have a very low fat storage; therefore they are usually referred to as slim.

* Mesomorphic body type is characterized by a high rate of muscle growth and a higher proportion of muscular tissue. They have large bones, solid torso combined with low fat levels. It is also noted that they have wide shoulders with a narrow waist.
* Endomorphic body type is characterized by an increased amount of fat storage, due to having a larger number of fat cells than the average person, as well as higher proportion of digestive tissue. They have a wide waist and a large bone structure.

I think I am more Mesomorphic...