I need to come up here and say something. Lord knows that my mom and I do not have the best relationship. We all know why and I have brought most of it to this forum.

But I will say that I truly believe that my mom was faithful to my father during their marraige. I know that my mom is NOT the cheating type. In fact, I believe that my mom and dad were faithful to each other during their marraige. I did live with them both at one point and witnessed how they acted around each other while I lived with them and AFTER they split up and moved out. So before anyone tries to tell me that I am naive, please know that I am basing this on my own experiences with my parents.

That information about my mom supposedly committing adultery with SHS did not come from me, as it was news to me. I also would never talk about anything sexual in relation to my parents. I think that is the unwritten rule between kids and their parents.

I believe that it was a rumor made up, but not from the "ex COLie" that relayed the info to my dad. I really believe that TYK was the one that said it first. And I feel this way because I have heard the things she has said behind my back, what she has said about my dad to my face and behind my back, and what she has said about my mom behind her back and publicly in COL class. And with what she has said about my mom publicly and privately, this sexual tidbit sounds like something she would nonchalantly pass along to other members close to her. I have my own very specific reasons as to why she would make up something like that. And, no I don't feel like discussing that here or with anyone for that matter.

She also spread rumors about me and my mom's relationship to a "COLie" and the information made its way to me. I know that TYK is capable of, and this sounds like something TYK would have said.

HerLesson, I think that you have said enough about my mom. I get how you feel about my mom as you have berated her many times before and I am sure she gets it. She doesn't care what you think about her. Did she jump to any changes after your last suggestions ? And all this talk against my mom is just starting to piss me off now. Just because you may be a good mother and just because you probably have a great relationship with your children doesn't necessarily give you the right to be like that to my mom. And I know if you were in my mother's position, your children would probably stand up for you in the same way that I am standing up for her today. In fact you can count on it that they would. No one likes to see their mom cut down.

I will say this again: I don't believe that my mother cheated on my father at all. I believe that she honored their marraige while it lasted. And I know for a fact that she is loyal to SHS her husband now.

As for the issues between us, at some point we will just have to give it up and either not speak to each other or just agree to disagree. My mom and I are both very stubborn people and I don't think that we will ever change each others minds. That is by far one of the harderst lessons I have learned. I have come to the point in my life that I am okay with how my mom lives her life, and the choices she makes and what she thinks of me.

Another thing I have learned through this is that I know what I believe, and I really don't care what people in COL or outside think of me. I am also not sorry about all my opinions about Tae Yun Kim.

Chica, I have not berated your mother, what I have said is she needs help. I have voiced my opinion about your mother from mostly what YOU have written. I have also formed opinions from my experiences in her presence and what tyk has said awful things about her. Although what tyk says is always bullsh-t, so I took that with a grain of salt.

While I was involved with LWS I always felt sorry for your mother because she always looked like a frighten deer with headlights and because tyk always took great pleasure in belittling her in front of others. Certainly, someone needs help that allows such abuse to go on to themselves.

I am sure tyk was the one to pass on lies, she is sneaky that way. It is not anyone's business what happened between your mother and father. I am sure they both have suffered because of tyk.

You can't expect people not to form opinions when they read the posts and then not to express themselves as well.

Anyway, for the record I am done discussing my mother or this rumor. I have nothing more to add, and I think that I have addressed everything that I wanted about this matter.

I won't be going into this rumor any further either. It was a devastating revelation to me. I sincerely hope your assessment of your Mother is correct, and that it was kimmy's doing for whatever sick reason.

I also think it is time for me to leave the forum. It has been cathartic, but there are some things that I wish I had never found out. Ignorance may indeed be bliss.

Chica, where you need to draw the line is where your mother chose a dirt bag of a woman over what is best for her children, husband and herself. You have written what your mother's choices were, I didn't. You need to accept that, not defend it. You can love your mother but acknowledge what she is and what she will never be.

Every one of the ex-members have taken their share of responsibility, some took more than was actually theirs and they moved on. This took more courage, more than maybe I would have had. I just know one thing, I would never ever allow such pain to be inflicted on my children.

No I cannot be compassionate to a person who has allowed abuse to her children and herself. Isn't allowing it to go on excusing your mother a lot like giving an alcoholic a drink?

If you are so concerned and want your morals and sense of responsibility to kick in, then you should go on TV, the papers anywhere and tell the world what tyk has done to you and your childhood.

I have just one last comment about this situation between Mounteverestgir and Shadow Dancer, and then I think it best to move on to other subjects.

Assuming for the moment that Mounteverestgir is as pure as the driven snow in the faithfulness department, then it is TYK that is the troublemaker. She has fomented a real brouhaha here, and no doubt she wanted that information , true or not, to come to Shadow Dancer's ear. Even when I was training with her, she would tell me things about SHS and WHH that I really didn't need to know, and would show me letters many of her students had written her, sharing their intimate thoughts with her. So she has no problem with outing people and their behaviors, and when it doesn't actually happen, I believe she'll fabricate it to achieve her purpose.

It has also come to my attention some statements she has made about me, and they are really whoppers when it comes to the falsehood department. It just fits a pattern.

I'm done with this matter now.

I won't be going into this rumor any further either. It was a devastating revelation to me. I sincerely hope your assessment of your Mother is correct, and that it was kimmy's doing for whatever sick reason.

In general, I don't like criticizing COL members here unless they are direct accomplices of TYK, because they are victims too. I'd like to see them post more often, and they're unlikely to do so if posting means they can be subject to personal attacks. They get defensive enough when their claims of fact are challenged.

I can see why you reacted the way you did to this rumor, given your past relationship. I probably would have reacted much the same way to a certain revelation about CA if we hadn't broken up by the time of the incident.


I also think it is time for me to leave the forum. It has been cathartic, but there are some things that I wish I had never found out. Ignorance may indeed be bliss.

I'll miss your posts, but I understand. Discovering this forum turned my life upside down for a while. But so far I'm glad to know the truth. Even years after I left I still believed some of what TYK said about herself. I subconsciously limited myself out of fear of her. It is liberating for me to know she was a complete hypocrite.

OK Shadow let me give you piece of advice: before you go and defame someone's character, get your facts straight and proven.

You have no right to splash complete lies about me on the internet for all to see, or anywhere else for that matter.

I have never committed adultery and am willing to repeat that under oath, anywhere. I have not ever done such thing, thought about doing such thing, and for your information, will not ever do such a thing.

I have a very strong set of morals and I would appreciate it if you backed off and left me alone. DO NOT continue to make claims like you just did. I have left you alone, now do me the same favor.

Go back to that person and tell them they are out of their mind. I wouldn't mind confronting them myself either. Most of all, stop ruining other people's reputation, especially mine.

Mounteverestgirl

A simple "That didn't happen" would have sufficed. You opened a whole can of worms by bringing in the question of morals and reps into it then took it one step further by questioning shadow’s character and the characters of those that run this forum (sordid place?) and those that post here (since truth is obviously not what you are after).

First and foremost, I for one, think that this “rumor “ is just one of those perpetuated by Kim. The one thing I noticed and appreciated about you during the times that we talked over the reception counter in Milpitas is that you took your catholic upbringing very seriously and more than once, we spoke of the vast differences in values and principles that one encountered in the US as opposed to our home countries. In normal circumstances, it is difficult for one to shake off the way you are brought up and what you are taught as a child pretty much stays with you for life. Unfortunately, the circumstances of your life are not normal so it is not really as farfetched for people to imagine that you would put aside a lifetime of beliefs to please your master. Put aside emotion for a second and try to see this using your mind and not your heart. Reason as opposed to emotion. Kim is your master. You do what she tells you to. Your marriage to shadow didn’t suit her so it’s done. Your children took away from the time you spent serving her so you were made to pass them off to someone else. Shadow left Kim and became the enemy so he was disparaged in front of everyone in COL including his own children. See the pattern yet? Think back to the time when you were growing up in Austria. If someone told you that you would one day give up for your love, your life and your children because of a small Korean woman who fancies herself to be God, how would Gabi have reacted? I bet you would either have laughed yourself silly or been shocked by the very thought that anyone could ever think that you would do such a thing, (Kinda like how you’re reacting now?)

You would have been a fabulous mother if only you gave yourself the chance and Kim didn’t take the privilege away from you. I say this because you were one of the few that made me feel truly welcome every time we met. You uttered the standard American greeting, “How are you doing? “ and stuck around to hear what I had to say unlike others who usually just uttered the words and kept moving. Your natural instinct is to nurture those around you and you did it well, except to those that required and deserved it most, your son and daughter. Its sad when you think about it because there are so many women out there who would have done anything to be blessed with children. Take your master for example. How many times did she try and fail to bring children into the world? Could this be the reason why she discourages COL women from having kids with hogwash like “some babies come in to the world evil”? Is this why she takes away the children from those who are already mothers because it reminds her that in spite of all her so-called “greatness”, she was never able to create and bring a new life into this world? Enough about Kim and her propensities for a moment. Lets get back to you and your response to shadow.

After reading his response several times, I cannot see how you came to the conclusion that he did not or was not willing to listen to you. He offered to discuss the issue offline, he spoke of his love for you and he was courageous and honest enough to open himself up to declare this on an open forum. How does this, in your mind, show poor character? What sort of truth are you looking for that you say that he is not seeking the same? When you first read his post as your daily duty to report back to Kim, did you talk of his post and ask leave to respond? Did she tell you that he would only lie and not want to listen because of bad energy? Did you then report his response only to have her say that “See? I told you he wouldn’t listen. He has bad energy, he is a liar and everyone on the forum lies because they are evil and trying to stop me from saving the world”. Read his post again. Though you may feel the passion and hurt behind the words, you can also see the love that was once there and still is if only because you are the mother of his children. Children that are now young adults who still have to deal with the fact that their mother chose another over them. That alone, for your information is the antithesis of moral and natural. You hear stories of mother’s doing anything and everything for their kids, picking up cars to save their child from death, fighting off wild animals to keep their child safe. Is that what you did? No. You gave your kids to the wild animal to do as she will and as a result lost out on one of the greatest joys you could have had. I feel sorry for you and hope that you realize that it is never too late for you and your children. If it is a natural and wonderful thing for mothers to love, cherish and nurture their children, the beauty of it all is that it is also natural for children to hold their mother in their hearts forever. The time that passes only ensures that you will have less time to spend together should you finally decide to break through the wall that you have built between you, it will never be that they will grow to resent you so much that they would turn away from you.

I think that if you would only give yourself a chance and let the real you take over and start thinking about just how much you have lost because of a woman who has nothing more to offer than lies, suffering and pain, you will see what the others who were in the same situation eventually saw. As you know, there were several women in COL in similar circumstances. It took the possibility of never seeing or being in the life of her newly born grandchild for one to finally see the truth of what Kim really was and the sacrifices that was being asked of her in the name of Kim’s glory. What is it going to take to open your eyes? I hope and pray it doesn’t turn out to be something that you will regret for the rest for your life.

Good luck to you and know that you and every member of COL are in my prayers everyday. I pray that you will be granted the vision to see things as they truly are and not just your thoughts creating your own reality according to the tenets of Kim.

I've only been aware of this forum for three months, and the only additional info I have is from about half a dozen exers that I've been in touch with since discovering this forum. What I'm wondering is, has what Mr. Fontaine knows only come out since this forum was started? If so, why? Is it because there was no one for him to tell it to before? Was he afraid to speak out? Or did no one ask him about it before because TYK had badmouthed him so much? I would have loved to have known about it before I started training, but even if I had known about it in, say, 1995, when the World Wide Web exploded and it became easy to look things up, I might have at least left sooner.

I've only been aware of this forum for three months, and the only additional info I have is from about half a dozen exers that I've been in touch with since discovering this forum. What I'm wondering is, has what Mr. Fontaine knows only come out since this forum was started? If so, why? Is it because there was no one for him to tell it to before? Was he afraid to speak out? Or did no one ask him about it before because TYK had badmouthed him so much? I would have loved to have known about it before I started training, but even if I had known about it in, say, 1995, when the World Wide Web exploded and it became easy to look things up, I might have at least left sooner.

From what I've been told, Mr. Fontaine has moved on with his life and does not wish to be involved with anything that has to do with Kim and her cohorts. It is my understanding that he only spoke to certain people under the condition that it be kept confidential so I am not sure why he has been outed here after extracting such a promise from those he spoke to. His reasons for not speaking out before and now are his own but I suspect that it is partly because no one sought him out and because he has made a new life for himself that is totally removed from his past. Based on testimony from other ex-members, it seems that Kim has a history of harrassing those on the outside that speak up about their experiences. This is the reason why that in spite of the fact that there are more ex members then there are current, there is only a handful on this forum who are willing to risk the ire of Kim by speaking about their experiences with her and the choice of the others to remain silent should be respected.

One thing I would really like to know..........Can Tae Yun Kim really prove that she deserves to be adressed as Dr. Kim ? Can she prove that she earned a doctorate in Business Administration ?

TYK can't even get her facts straight about what she earned her doctorate in. Here in Vermont she stated she had a PhD in Human Resources, and in California she states she has one in Business Administration. Hell, with her bent for hyperbole, maybe she has 2 PhDs, but then again , I don't want to give her any ideas.

Shouldn't a person who has a degree in business administration at least know how to write a check and use an ATM card? Shouldn't they know what properties they own and their approximate worth? Shouldn't they know about profit and loss, income and expenditure, and how to balance the books, not "cook" the books?

I don't need any convincing that she's as phoney as a three dollar bill.

I am sorry if I said anything inappropriate, but I know that when I spoke to him that I didn't have to promise anything and there wasn't an agreement between us, or shall I say, him and I. If there was, I wouldn't be up here. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but seriously, when it comes down to it, TYK knows where that comment of her being a prostitute in Korea came from. And he said it specifically himself. There is no way any of us would have known that.

I won't say anything else, but I totally agree with you that he has made a new life for himself. He has moved on. When I spoke to him, there was no anger in his voice, and told me things in a "matter-of-fact manner."

He helped me see things clearer, gave me answers to questions that no one else could answer.

Anyway, enough on him............

Well, maybe one more thing. Weighing people's privacy on one hand and other people's need for verifiable information on the other is a tough one. I've been scared to come out myself, so I can relate to the desire for privacy. But if statements about TYK are to be verified so the public can be forewarned, it helps if some people are willing to go on record.

Well, maybe one more thing. Weighing people's privacy on one hand and other people's need for verifiable information on the other is a tough one. I've been scared to come out myself, so I can relate to the desire for privacy. But if statements about TYK are to be verified so the public can be forewarned, it helps if some people are willing to go on record.

It would help a lot if anyone who knew anything was willing to go on record and testify to it but it still boils down to being a matter of choice for each individual. Even those who post here have mentioned that they would rather not testify unless they were subpoenaed so there are obviously limits as to how far people are personally willing to go. I don't know if this is a remnant of the COL experience wherein Kim is one to be feared and obeyed or if it is simply a matter of controlling the amount of involvement a person has in exposing her.

I for one, feel that information is the key to all this. From what I have surmised from the posts, COL is comprised of people who joined Kim based on misinformation and promises of a better life , all unrealized. I think it is only fair that both sides of the story be made available for everyone to read and based on that, people have the freedom to draw their own conclusions. If one knows and still joins, well then, the decisions would have been entered into with full disclosure and their eyes wide open.:new_shock

It would help a lot if anyone who knew anything was willing to go on record and testify to it but it still boils down to being a matter of choice for each individual. Even those who post here have mentioned that they would rather not testify unless they were subpoenaed so there are obviously limits as to how far people are personally willing to go. I don't know if this is a remnant of the COL experience wherein Kim is one to be feared and obeyed or if it is simply a matter of controlling the amount of involvement a person has in exposing her.

I for one, feel that information is the key to all this. From what I have surmised from the posts, COL is comprised of people who joined Kim based on misinformation and promises of a better life , all unrealized. I think it is only fair that both sides of the story be made available for everyone to read and based on that, people have the freedom to draw their own conclusions. If one knows and still joins, well then, the decisions would have been entered into with full disclosure and their eyes wide open.:new_shock
I want to first say that I am not minimizing the trauma you have all had from your association with this insane woman - not in the least. In fact, I am a psychologist who is board certified in the treatment of persons with traumatic stress. But, I have to say that this thread is like a real life soap opra! Lies, sex, mind control, money stealing, public personna that makes her seem more credible and you guys just sour-grapes complainers or the crazy ones ...WOW - so far, the only thing missing is drugs & murder (but who knows???). Now, maybe I missed this in the first part of this thread, but is there some legal action FINALLY being taken against this manipulative little bitch?? From her website, it seems that her school(s?) are up and running very well. Are new students enrolling? How young are the children who are enrolled and are they subjected to this abuse by her, or do other instructors mainly interface with students on a class to class basis? I take it that she, herself, has no children.
Anyway, again, I mean none of you any disrespect for having been sucked in by her. I can tell that she is very charismatic and the entire traditions of martial arts, that we are all trained in from white belt, teach us to (somewhat) blindly follow our father/mother grandmaster, obey without too much question etc. We also know, from observation, what happens to those who don't follow the "rules" and talk out of school or leave the cult.:bowdown: (TYK's organisational chart!)

I want to first say that I am not minimizing the trauma you have all had from your association with this insane woman - not in the least. In fact, I am a psychologist who is board certified in the treatment of persons with traumatic stress. But, I have to say that this thread is like a real life soap opra! Lies, sex, mind control, money stealing, public personna that makes her seem more credible and you guys just sour-grapes complainers or the crazy ones ...WOW - so far, the only thing missing is drugs & murder (but who knows???). Now, maybe I missed this in the first part of this thread, but is there some legal action FINALLY being taken against this manipulative little bitch?? From her website, it seems that her school(s?) are up and running very well. Are new students enrolling? How young are the children who are enrolled and are they subjected to this abuse by her, or do other instructors mainly interface with students on a class to class basis? I take it that she, herself, has no children.
Anyway, again, I mean none of you any disrespect for having been sucked in by her. I can tell that she is very charismatic and the entire traditions of martial arts, that we are all trained in from white belt, teach us to (somewhat) blindly follow our father/mother grandmaster, obey without too much question etc. We also know, from observation, what happens to those who don't follow the "rules" and talk out of school or leave the cult.:bowdown: (TYK's organisational chart!)

I agree with Chica. You do not sound like a psychologist, or any doctor for that matter.

Chica and HerLesson, I'm not sure, but I think you may have misunderstood the intent of "public personna that makes her seem more credible and you guys just sour-grapes complainers or the crazy ones" in Saman's post. The way I read it, Saman is describing how TYK portrays us. But we can let Saman explain.

TYK's school may be up and running, but I wouldn't know, having not been there in years. It was mentioned in the previous thread that enrollment is down and TYK blames this forum. Again, I wouldn't know.

What I can tell you is that TYK has quite a bad rep among local martial artists. For example, the day after I discovered this forum I met a jiu-jitsu student. We talked about martial arts for a bit, then he asked which school I went to. At first I said, "I don't want to talk about it." He was startled, so I said, "If someone claims to know the spiritual side of the martial arts, be very skeptical." His response: "I know exactly who you mean. Milpitas, right?"

:bowdown:
Even here in Medford they know about her "martial arts training" I didn't have to say anything. They already knew the score. Yes I would say the word has spread.
As far a s testifying, they have all I have and know what I know. They can use it or throw it away, I really don't care. But the truth will be known to all.