How much of the vitamin suppliment is absorbed?

I was told that as little as 10% of the suppliment is absorbed. Is this true? Should vitamins be doubled up, or will this result in toxicity of some minerals?

Depends on the particular vitamins actually. I usually only take half of a multivitamin tablet since any of the water soluable vitamins over what your body needs go out with urine. I also only take 1/2 of a tablet because the fat soluable vitamins *do* store the excess in your fat cells and could potentially be toxic in excess levels.

I asked a biology professor about toxicity & fat soluable vitamins once and he pretty much said that they *could* be toxic in excess (depending on the compound) but we really don't know at the moment so you're best off not mega dosing them unless you live in a third world country.

Good question! I am hoping Macho will be along shortly to educate us. I am sure this has been covered before, but I am interested in the answer too.

Is there any particular vitamin that is recommend by the users here? Something not crazy expensive, but high on the absorption scale? I uses to take these $80 a month horsepills my naturopath recommended, they were great but my budget couldn't keep up. On the other hand, I don't see any benefit at all from taking Centrum or Jameison - they seem mostly like a waste of money. And the ones I am taking right now make me hurl if I don't take them right after a meal - and who needs that?

Suggestions?

El Macho? You there? Buddy?

Depends on the particular vitamins actually.

Yep.

Water-soluble vitamins like C are virtually impossible to overdose on, because they pass through the body so quickly, which means that not all of what you take in is absorbed. When I'm sick, I take 1,000 mg every few hours. Technically, it is possible to OD on it, but it's hard.

Fat-soluble vitamins like A, however, are different. A Vitamin A overdose is relatively easy to make happen, and its symptoms are, ironically, similar to a deficiency, which could make you want to take more.

Minerals like iodine and selenium are hard to OD on unless you supplement, but they can cause problems if you do.

Ask your doctor about doubling up supplements.

Yep.

Water-soluble vitamins like C are virtually impossible to overdose on, because they pass through the body so quickly, which means that not all of what you take in is absorbed. When I'm sick, I take 1,000 mg every few hours. Technically, it is possible to OD on it, but it's hard.

Fat-soluble vitamins like A, however, are different. A Vitamin A overdose is relatively easy to make happen, and its symptoms are, ironically, similar to a deficiency, which could make you want to take more.

Minerals like iodine and selenium are hard to OD on unless you supplement, but they can cause problems if you do.

Ask your doctor about doubling up supplements.

Good post.

To the OP,
I started drafting a longer response but instead decided to ask, what are you taking and what benefit are you trying to get?

One shouldn't just double a multi (as kwoww explained), specially if one is having a diet rich in meat (specially red meat). For example, vitamin A and Iron are easy to overdose for men (women need more Iron than men so they can get away with it, just barely.)

A regular multi (like centrum) a day is sufficient. In addition to a centrum a day, I take extra vitamin C just in case (about 2,000mg combined with glutamine). BTW, the government recommended daily dosage on vitamin C is a joke. Take 1,000mg a day at least.

Also, once in a while I take some extra zinc (30mg) for 2 to 3 days and then I'm off for a few weeks. I do this when I feel tired, and also because it helps me control some acne I have on my triceps. That works for me, and may not work for others. Zinc overdose can be risky, and it's not something to fool around blindly.

The argument that only about 10% of a multi gets absorbed by the body is an urban legend (meaning, its teh retarded.)

What happens is that sometimes you can't efficiently absorb all vitamins and minerals when taken at the same time. High levels of zinc or calcium, for example, may conflict with absorbtion. Then you have people hearing this and go "uh, so what's the point, duh, it's ineficient." Then, in true human nature, it becomes the urban fact of 10% absorbed, 90% down through the poop chute.

One can try to make life more complicated than it is already by trying to time when and who take each mineral and vitamin, but to what end?

At the end of the day, the supplementation of vitamins and minerals are just that, supplements.

One should have a good balanced diet first, and use multivitamins and a few extre supplements - calcium, vitamin C almost everyday, folate if you are a woman, maybe Thiamine, Riboflavin, chromium and potassium (iron if you are a women in your period), zinc every once in a blue moon - all of this to cover deficiencies in the food you take (for there are deficiencies no matter what you eat everyday.)

I like to take a zinc supplement everyday myself.

First thing that popped up when I searched ZINC TESTOSTERONE through google.

http://www.advance-health.com/zinc.html


Zinc, Testosterone, and Men's Health

Zinc is necessary to maintain normal serum testosterone. Inadequate zinc levels prevent the pituitary gland from releasing luteinizing and follicle stimulating hormones, which stimulate testosterone production.

Zinc also inhibits the aromatase enzyme, that allows conversion of testosterone into excess estrogen. The testosterone to estrogen ratio in men declines with aging from a high of about 50:1 to half of that, or even a low of 10:1. Higher estrogen activity results in increased risk of heart disease, weight gain, and obesity.

One reason for the progressive weight gain with age is that fat cells contain aromatase. More fat cells mean more estrogen which means more fat deposition.

This is further aggravated by alcohol consumption, which lowers zinc and increases estrogen, and so magnifies the problem.

In addition to the impact on hormone levels, zinc also has been proven to help the body produce healthier sperm by increasing sperm count and motility. A USDA study found that semen volume dropped 30 percent when zinc intake was low. Research published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that male volunteers who consumed low amounts of zinc exhibited decreased semen volumes and serum testosterone concentrations.

Zinc deficiency has been found to have a severe impact on the male prostate gland. Zinc deficiency predisposes the prostate to infection (prostatis) which may lead to enlargement of the prostate gland (prostatic hypertrophy).

Is there any particular vitamin that is recommend by the users here? Something not crazy expensive, but high on the absorption scale? I uses to take these $80 a month horsepills my naturopath recommended, they were great but my budget couldn't keep up. On the other hand, I don't see any benefit at all from taking Centrum or Jameison - they seem mostly like a waste of money. And the ones I am taking right now make me hurl if I don't take them right after a meal - and who needs that?

Suggestions?SuperNutrition (http://www.supernutritionusa.com), owned by father of biochem-guru Michael Mooney (http://www.medibolics.com/), offers an array of excellent products. Most notable is their very high potency Opti-Pack (http://www.supernutritionusa.com/productpages/optipack.html).

http://www.supernutritionusa.com/images/supplement_facts/OP-Supp-Facts.gif

http://www.supernutritionusa.com/images/supplement_facts/OP-Other-Ingred.gif

At around $30 a month, they're considerably less expensive than the supplements you were taking. I've been unable to find multi-vitamins with potencies as high, as well balanced, or as uniformly in line with the research studies I've seen.

They've often made a point that fewer binders in their tablets allow them to break down more readily and improve absorption. Though most important for efficacy, they claim, is dosage.


When SuperNutrition was founded in 1977, there were only about 3,000 scientific studies researching the effectiveness of higher potencies of vitamins and minerals. Today there are over 20,000 studies in the National Library of Medicine showing that increased potencies of vitamins and minerals lead to increased effectiveness and great health benefits. This growing body of independent research suggests that the critical element for effectiveness is not the nutrient form or carrier but the specific effective dosage level. SuperNutrition supplies potencies that have been shown to be far more effective than the RDA or other lower doses.

There are definitely worse places to start than their page on nutrition (http://www.supernutritionusa.com/learn_about.html) if you'd like more information. A few of the articles are pretty well-referenced and can point you toward other research if it's something you're interested in pursuing further.

To the OP,
I started drafting a longer response but instead decided to ask, what are you taking and what benefit are you trying to get?

I am taking a pill with omega 3, 6, and 9 fatty acids, and I am taking a multi-vitamin. I'm going to buy Lecithin (inositol + choline) the next time I'm at the health store to help with sheding excess weight. I want more energy and to be healthy.

I am taking a pill with omega 3, 6, and 9 fatty acids, and I am taking a multi-vitamin. I'm going to buy Lecithin (inositol + choline) the next time I'm at the health store to help with sheding excess weight. I want more energy and to be healthy.

On the 3-6-9, are you taking that everyday? you may want to re-think that if you are. It's probably excessive, 6 and 9 at least are pretty common in the average American diet so you may have a very limited need to supplement. And, if you're anything like me, I actually found that the excess was probably inhibiting my ability to digest and uptake. I only pop one now maybe once or twice a week.

thanks

On the 3-6-9, are you taking that everyday? you may want to re-think that if you are. It's probably excessive, 6 and 9 at least are pretty common in the average American diet so you may have a very limited need to supplement. And, if you're anything like me, I actually found that the excess was probably inhibiting my ability to digest and uptake. I only pop one now maybe once or twice a week.

thanks

I wish I would have known this before buying a 250 tablet bottle of Omega 3-6-9. The reason I wanted Omega 6 included was because I was told it is used by the body to form myelin sheath on neurons which is required for healthy brain function- it improves memory and fights depression.

I'll make the switch to Omega 3. I'll find some way to use the 3-6-9, maybe alternate taking it with an Omega 3 every other day?

There are some vitamins that lose efficacy when taken together, especially zinc and calcium, and vitamin e and iron.

That's one of the reasons why zinc supplements such as ZMA use magnesium and aspartate as their base. Guess what one of the most common fillers in vitamins is- forms of calcium. In other words, your standard Walgreens zinc supplement may not actually be delivering as much zinc as it purportedly contains, due to the use of calcium as a filler.

This is an awesome article from the sports medicine department of MIT:
http://web.mit.edu/athletics/sportsmedicine/wcrminerals.html


Zinc, oxylates (a chemical that is found in sweet potatoes, dried beans, rhubarb and spinach), concentrated forms of phytic acid (such as found in wheat bran and dried beans)and dietary fiber inhibit calcium absorption.

Zinc and iron taken together may limit the absorption of zinc. Calcium and iron combined in a meal may decrease the absorption of iron. Other products that inhibit absorption are: phosphates (sodas),polyphenols (red wine, purple grape juice, coffee, tea, spices, some fruits, some vegetables), wheat bran, phytates (phytic acids found in legumes, grains and rice can decrease absorption by 50%), tannins (teas, coffees), manganese, cobalt, copper, cadmium (in cigarette smoke), calcium, legume protein (soybeans, lentils, black beans, mung beans, and split peas), lignin (fibrous tissued vegetables) and soy protein. Nonheme iron is more affected by the above inhibitors than heme iron. Nonheme iron helpers that increase absorption: Vitaminc C, citric (fruit), malic, tartaric (tart fruit and baking powder) and lactic acids, alcohol, fructose, sorbitol, meat, fish and poultry.

Zinc absorption is decreased by drinking tea or coffee or eating vegetables or whole grains with phytic acid (found in fiber) with meals. Zinc joins the phytic acid and forms zinc-phytate which is not absorbed. High intakes of calcium, iron and copper may also limit zinc absorption.

So, taking a multivitamin with zinc, calcium, iron, copper and more together can actually be self-deafeating. A friend of mine with a degree in physiology says that for such reasons, single multivitamins (as opposed to a pack which you take the pills from at different times) are a scam.

edit- this other site has specific studies listed as well in the footnotes


DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS:
The following dietary supplement:
IRONHARMFUL EFFECT:
Taking CALCIUM and IRON together may reduce the absorption of IRON. This is especially of concern if IRON is being taken for a medical condition such as anemia.PROOF:
This interaction has been reported in people (11).WHAT TO DO:
Talk to your doctor before taking CALCIUM and IRON together. If you are already taking CALCIUM and IRON together, take them at different times of the day, and contact your doctor for further information.The following dietary supplement:
ZINC
HARMFUL EFFECT:
Taking CALCIUM and ZINC together may reduce the absorption of ZINC from the diet, especially in elderly people.PROOF:
This interaction has been reported in people (12).WHAT TO DO:
If you take CALCIUM supplements, talk to your doctor before supplementing your diet with ZINC. If you are already taking CALCIUM and ZINC together, contact your doctor for further information.
http://www.luhs.org/HEALTH/kbase/htm/mdx-/amci/0051/mdx-amci0051.htm

ironlurker, thanks for the good post and links!

I know some vitamins and minerals do not work well together and it is smart to take them at different times of the day. This is the kind of information I am looking for.

I wish I would have known this before buying a 250 tablet bottle of Omega 3-6-9. The reason I wanted Omega 6 included was because I was told it is used by the body to form myelin sheath on neurons which is required for healthy brain function- it improves memory and fights depression.

I'll make the switch to Omega 3. I'll find some way to use the 3-6-9, maybe alternate taking it with an Omega 3 every other day?

If you're taking a 3 everyday, I'd say take a 3-6-9 every 3rd or 4th day (if that). And that should be driven by your diet.

Basically the deal is this, Omega-6 consumption in excessive ratio to 3 will impede your ability to uptake 3. Omega 9 is a non-essential fatty acid (as opposed to 3 and 6 which are essential) - which means for example, if you were consuming a fair amount of Olive oil day-to-day as part of your diet - your body will make O-9).

It won't make O-3 or O-6 hence dietary consumption from direct sources or supplements. Some food sources for 3 and 6 are fish, soya oil, canola oil, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, some leafy vegetables - all good stuff that provides a bunch of other benefits so you should be eating it anyway.

As a general rule, grass fed animals accumulate 6 and 3 in better ratio (for your uptake) than grain fed do - for whatever reason they retain higher 6 quantities which blows the proportions. So, if you're eating meat and can find it, grass fed beef and lamb will be better than grain-fed - which also applies generally to the meats' nutritional value - grass > grain.

Ideal proportion for 6:3 for maximizing storage of both is from a 1:1 ratio to a 4:1 ratio. As it gets higher than this, your body prefers to stash 6 and does so at the expense of 3. And from current research focus, 3 is really "the business" dietarily, and the hardest to absorb so - focus on getting your 3 consumption and occasionally supplement a 3-6-9.

At the end of the day, to El Macho's prev. post - focus on eating real food, the additive benefits of proper food sources vs. supplementation (generally) kicks ass.

With the exception, as I'm sure someone will point out, that if you're really trying to pound down the protein, it's hard to just eat sufficient quantities along with everything else - and still be able to move around during the day.

I'm going to buy Lecithin (inositol + choline) the next time I'm at the health store to help with sheding excess weight. I want more energy and to be healthy.

Lecithin for weight loss and energy? How does that work?

I took lecithin when I was nursing to help with blocked milk ducts, but I didn't know it had other purposes (I am presuming, JJson, that breastfeeding problems are not among your health concerns :XXkiss: )