i am very sorry to say this but the more i posted(and received) replies, the more i felt that taekwondo is inferior to other martial arts,especially muay thai(or tomoi)
Tomoi? Never heard of that.
Taegwondo has essentially the same skill set as any Shorin-ryu based karate style. THe only thing that separates it is training methodology. Thus, you can have good TKD on one end, or crap TKD on the other.
every time i send a replies to save tkd from being flamed,the more flames i get.(like:tkd suck,tkd for amatuers,tkd is only a flashy,but harmless styles,tkd people are retarded,etc)
Arguing on the Internet will not save TKD, so don't bother replying.
What will save TKD is dedicated sincere practitioners willing to practice and train to advance their art, rather than let it stagnate.
i really love taekwondo,weather it is WTF,ITF,GTF,or others.so please help me to uphold the very fighting arts we love and enjoy.
Do you fight with your TKD?
If you don't, then it is not a fighting art.
p/s; i hope nobody will curse or flames me
Please follow this link to the rules for posting in this forum: Click here (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1348688&postcount=1)
You can't criticise my argument. Doesn't that make you the moron?
It's more of the fact that you aren't bringing anything new to the conversation and what you do bring isn't even worth addressing. When you're not attacking strawmen, you're stating the obvious, things that have been discussed ad nauseum, and all you end up doing is preaching to the choir.
Go read the sticky with the rules for posting in this forum.
You have reflected poorly on your art, and will have no worth until you start acting like an adult.
You wanna critique Mav's worth and how he represents Taegwondo, get in the ring and spar him. Until then, your whole "you have dishonored your family and the Shaolin temple" act is a bunch of pompous, arrogant bullshit.
Are there any top guys in Pride and UFC who use TKD as their striking base? No.
Please understand that Pride and UFC are MIXED MARTIAL ARTS. Therefore since many styles such as Karate, TKD, MT have some of the same attacks it is hard to differentiate.
The kicks often lack power. There's a lack of hand strikes, hand blocks that dont work. A lot of TKD people copy boxing for hand strikes and then have weak kicks compared to MT. I have a vid of a tournament where a TKD guy just gets consistently kicked off his feet by a MTer.
Kicks lack Power? LOL, c'mon man get off the bandwagon. We can meet at the STL TD and spar if you would like. Please feel free to let me know which kicks lack power during the session.
Lack of hand strikes? You speak like a true noob. You confuse Olympic TKD with other styles of TKD. I take ITF TKD. It has a number of hand techniques that I use during sparring and tournaments.
Your video proves nothing. No doubt I can find a video proving the exact opposite, if I thought it would convince you otherwise.
Then there's the pointless forms in TKD that go on and on showing wide open movements with little applicability. However lose the forms, incorporate more diverse training methods, full contact sparring, have an open mind, do boxing hands and MT kicks, and oh yeah keep some stuff from TKD perhaps, and it would be better. The kicking training can be compatible with MT and KB kicking, at least I can say a positive. ie. TKD can develop leg speed and flexibility if not power. Which can be useful.
The forms are used as a training tool to increase ones ability to put combos together, and as a cultural TMA thing.
If you have ever seen a white belt do Chon-Ji, and then watch them do Do-San 6 months later then you will see a huge difference in the ability.
Im not advocating loads of forms practice, but it does have its place.
AS for the rest of your post, please say something original. We all know that with better sparring practices TKD can be a better skill set.
One more thing....I thought you said that TKD kicks lack power?
Hey old man challenge me personally,
I think I did offer you a chance to prove me wrong.
We can meet at the STL TD and spar if you would like.
don't deal with my arguments and you fall into the same trap as your children friends. I said above "the striking component" of MMA is never TKD.
Again I say...how can you say this with 100% certainty? You cant differentiate between the different attacks, I see a lot of spinning side kicks thrown. I see some spinning backfists. I have seen Hook kicks..these are all components of TKD, therefore as an MMA competiton they are used.
If you guys had a leg to stand on you would attack my argument and not me personally. BTW I'm an ex-boxer and am 6'3" in height and weigh just under 350 lbs. I'm also left handed.
I have attacked your argument. You are confusing ONE particular style of TKD with ALL styles of TKD. You "fell into the same trap" as many who just bash TKD on here because it is popular to do so.
Is the listing of you stats supposed to impress/scare me? Sorry, it doesnt. Stick to discussin the topic at hand and stop all the veiled theats by telling us how big you are (if you are even telling the truth)
The truth is you cant argue against the obvious failings of TKD, You nutriders can't defend TKD on its merits!
1. I have been VERY vocal about the short comings of TKD. Please feel free to search my post history and you will see this. So your asessment of me being a nutrider is incorrect.
2. Please list the obvious "failings" of TKD as you understand them. If you list them I will then defend them. (I have already done this but it seems that you are looking for a fight)
3. Are FMA's used in MMA arenas? No? Does this therefore make them useless since no one uses them as their base?
More for you.
Look people, TKD kicks are only a step up from a nice soft massage from your SO
WHOMAG NO POWER!@#!!!!
Power? Why yes, I'd LOVE some.
You TKD apologists...
Oh its all been said before.
Mostly by me.
I don't need you repeating to me what I've already said.
So yeah, blow me.
Therefore its wrong? My god "you're a fucking moron" to quote the mighty Mav.
No, dickhead. I never said it was wrong.
It doesn't make sense for you to attack me based upon what seems to be a consensus opinion around here.
Go read the rules of the forum.
Not based upon just fighting skills but thanks to you and Mav, upon your inability to hold a rational argument
You have offered no rational argument.
As for the second part (ie. the Challenge).
There was no challenge. You said Mav was disgracing his art. I said the only way you could evaluate that was to get in the ring with him. It was an observation of a flaw in your argument. You made a personal attack without warrant.
You made the challenge.
Sounds like a typical BS internet challenge you wont even make it for yourself.
If you want to fight me, you're more than welcome to.
There is no attempt to address any of my criticisms of TKD as not being as good at other striking arts.
Because they've been answered on a billion other threads.
SEARCH FUNCTION N00B.
Of course I meant his comments showed he represented a dishonourable and disgraceful defense of TKD. You knew that.
That's bullshit right there.
His comments brought disgrace on TKD?!?
What do you think this is? A kung fu movie?
You are just doing another personal attack on me for daring to state the majority Bullshido opinion. Hey hold a poll! Does TKD suck? Oh yeah, we did a month like that....
And you didn't read a single one of my critiques of TKD during that month, did you?
Hurry up, your bandwagon is leaving without you.
One more time, go read the rules of this forum.
If you want to criticism, offer something of worth.
Consider yourself warned.
In the 3rd vid... do you know if they're wearing any gear under the doboks? I saw some strings poking out, so probably, but that's still pretty awesome stuff.
In ITF you only wear a cup, mouthpiece and feet and hand protectors.
Shotokan, TKD, TSD, Kempo, Kyokushin, etc. are all based off the same damned thing. So who the **** gets hung up on the name of an art? I'll go to a TKD place that actually teaches me to defend myself over a Kyokushin place that does forms all night long. (And Vice Versa.) It can be called *****-Ryu for all I care. Just so long as I learn something.
(Of course I'd never take TKD agian. Even if the school I went to only handed BBs out to the truly skilled. I'd just have to walk a block or two to find a bunch of fat overweight soccer moms that outranked me.)
I think that TKD gets the same rap as CMA does. There is SO much crap out there that it is damn near impossible to see anything BUT crap.
I have a good friend of mine who fought in the rinky-dink full contact in the area and did very well. He is a fucking pit bull in a spar. He studied in a TKD school and I dont think he could kick above gut level. But the guy teachin em was a pit bull too. It had little to do with the art itself.
Like that video posted some time back of the Black Belt test...I thought that was very good and I was impressed.
By the same token, I have sparred against many TKD (and various karate) that were SO bad that you almost felt bad for them. It is hard many times to seperate the practioner from the school/art. I do admit my opinions on TKD are negative as well, but I do try to remember that technically the crazy MA community as a whole places me in CMA which is the same as crap.
LOL @ this thread.
so please help me to uphold the very fighting arts we love and enjoy.
Kid, the best way for you to "uphold" tkd is to get in the ring, kick ass, post video and than say, "Yeah, I do TKD, bitch!" The second best way is for you to post video of others doing the same. There is plenty of video out there of "TKD guys" who can fight well. Proof that it is the training methodology and not the style that matters.
Lefty, you make me laugh, dude. 108 had it right when he said 1/2 your stuff is old news that has already been addressed about a 100 times, and the other half is BS. But, hey, I just got back from a week of firearms training and I'm feeling feisty so I'll enlighten you.
Are there any top guys in Pride and UFC who use TKD as their striking base? No.
You don't really follow the UFC do you? I mean, I'd call David Loisseau a "top guy", being a title contender and all. And that Stephan Bonner, he's pretty decent too, as I recall, though he may not yet be a "top guy". Serkan Yilmaz in K1 (some video of him was posted). Park Soo in K1. (There's more, of course, but those are the two that I'm most familiar with.) And that's not to mention the 100s of guys doing FCR kickboxing (shiny pants) that have backgrounds in TKD, or the guys (and gals) doing world combat league.
But I guess TKD doesn't work in the ring. Right? I mean, that was the point you were trying to make, right?
I have a vid of a tournament where a TKD guy just gets consistently kicked off his feet by a MTer.
Lolzers. That old thing? And I like how you later refer to the red belt as a "high ranked" TKDer! Otherwise that video remains a good example of what is wrong with your average TKDer. Of course, people have already posted a bunch of much more recent videos of TKDers doing quite well.
My point is TKD kicks lack power, prove me wrong with a video
Done. And multiple times in multiple venues. But, here's one more anyway.
Now, it's your turn to post how you were proven wrong with video evidence.
Their only counter to my arguments is to challenge me to "teh internet fight", they dont want to discuss the issues.
Every point you have brought up has been answered or refuted. Every one.
Look, Lefty, TKD is McDojo-ized and has poor quality control. Also, the most prevalent and publicized form of TKD combat/competition, which is Olympic TKD, has highly restrictive rules and piss poor judging that rewards fast but weak technique (along with a host of other bad habits). So, yes, you get a majority of TKD practicioners that end up looking like the guy in the old video you posted when faced with a real fight/fighter. HOWEVER (and here's what you missed) TKD was at one time a legit fighting art, and still is in some places. Also, thanks to a modern and growing emphasis on the importance of fighting full contact and with less restricitive rulesets, we are seeing more and more people who have TKD backgrounds entering the ring and doing well. Reference some of the videos posted in this thread and other places on this site.
Saying "X style sucks" is passe'. With a few exceptions of styles that were never legit to begin with, the problem is training methodology not style. Fortunately many of us have learned lessons from UFC 1 and videos like the one you posted. So you coming in here and posting "TKD sucks, HURR HURR!!" contributes nothing and only shows your ignorance of how the art is evolving and improving (some would say it's actually returning to it's roots, but you get the point). Take that stuff to YMAS, because that's not what this forum is for.
I love you Matt.....
In a non anal sex way I assure you.
Goju - Joe
For some reason we get a lot of former TKD practitioners in goju-jitsu. I think it because it's a combined system using karate / kick boxing and grappling so there's a comfort / familiarity level.
I notice that when sparring them sport jiu jitsu style. They jump around a lot and do things that get them hit and taken down quite a bit. They also pick up stuff and adapt really quickly.
TKD might have a lot of flash and dazzle in it and subsequently does things that don't work outside of the TKD fight paradigm
Good TKD practitioners have speed, aggression, stamina, agility, flexibility to name a few attributes.
And when they ( and by they I mean those particular brands of TKD that bounce and keep their hands down not the awesome brand of TKD practiced my Maverick in which no bouncing occurs and hands are held up proudly and defiantly and which is practiced in a danger room full of sharks with lasers on their heads and bees in their mouths ) cross train in more realistic styles and keep their hands up and bounce less they're pretty damn good.