well??

I've read that it was both.

The distinction between internal and external is irrelevant and was made up by Sun Lutang in the early 20th century. According to him the only internal styles are xingyiquan, taijiquan, and baguazhang. According to that logic _ing _un is an external style no matter how much people say to the contrary.

External....'nuf said.

Does it make a difference either way? Hell, we could call tai chi, hung gar, and choy li fut blue martial arts, while bagua, pak mei and hop gar are red martial arts. It doesn't really change anything.

Does it make a difference either way? Hell, we could call tai chi, hung gar, and choy li fut blue martial arts, while bagua, pak mei and hop gar are red martial arts. It doesn't really change anything.

This is very true and make about as much sense as the current internal/external classification.

No it doesn't matter but he asked a question so I answered it.

No it doesn't matter but he asked a question so I answered it.

Tee hee.



"When someone doesn't understand the question they just asked, any answer you give them is equally valid." -- Wayne Matson (my uncle)

Internal/external may have started as a label for those three styles, which focused on an internal chi/energy visualization to comprise the theory of application, but today it has come to mean something else.

The Chun is a balance of internal and external, but since most things are external anyway, chunning tends to start with more "internal" drills to bring that softer aspect out. So people tend to ask this question alot. Chi Sau is a somewhat internal type of excersise, but to apply it you strike which is external.

In WT we define internal as with in the space between you and the opponent and within the distance of one elbow length from the chest. External is the space around this sphere and outside your forearm distance. So it is defined by an imaginary sphere with about an arms length as diameter. (measured from the back stance out, so if your in a front stance you have allready moved to far in front of the rear foot to be in the "internal" space)

Also, there is some physics relating to how you generate force and defenses, whether you push off the floor and use a foot back for stability (external) or instead if you turn around opposition and try to redirect their own attack energy internally, but that is to complicated and I have to go to work.

To be considered internal you need to be ONLY internal, and even the chun uses external forces so Omega was correct.

No, that is the way you specifically define internal /external.

99.9% still consider Internal to be the way Sun Lutang defined it the correct definiton.

It is not like the morphing of MMA from multiple striking styles to Striking/Grappling/kicking.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.........




Neither.

is wing chun internal or external?

The way I train it is external.

It can be very soft, and sometimes people confuse soft w/ internal...

Typically internal arts take years to make work...and wing chun is supposed to be a quick, simple way to learn to fight...so they don't really seem like they compliment each other very well.

No, that is the way you specifically define internal /external.

99.9% still consider Internal to be the way Sun Lutang defined it the correct definiton.

It is not like the morphing of MMA from multiple striking styles to Striking/Grappling/kicking.

so only 1% of newbees ask this question?

More importantly, just because he wrote some book on it doesn't lock it as 3 internal styles for all time does it? What was internal about those 3? why can no other martial art ever use those same internal principles? maybe he never meet wing chun so it wasn't on his list?

People in MA use the terms internal and external all the time. The tems have their own meaning now outside of Sun Lutang. Just saying "it was his labeling" doesn't help us figure out why or what it means......

All well and good ...

... except you did not use "internal" and "external" as they are commonly understood in CMA.

You defined "indoor" and "outdoor" as they relate to distancing in CMA. In fact, 'PakSao Gei Noi Moon' - Don't slap the 'in-gate' (indoor) hand - is a HaoKuit (Ving Tsun KuenKuit) referencing the exact definition to which you speak.

(Let's sidestep the discussion of how to interpret and apply this particular KuenKuit within this thread.)

personally i think in the beginning of training its mostly external but as you grow as a maist you develope the structure ect.. and start to evolve yourself making the art more effortless which is internal to me

*shakes head

.....and they wonder why wing chun has no respectability on this forum.