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shotokan
9/27/2002 3:55am,
Just wondering what people think of Karate and how applicable it is in a real life situations.

bncwd
9/27/2002 4:40am,
I have done 4 yrs of Shotokan (14yrs to 18yrs old), and got a brown belt (no, it was not a Mcdojo), then I gave up and turned to boxing.

First of all, too much time spent on Katas, which if good for position, stability etc., are not the best for self defense.
Too much time also spent on pre-arranged patterns of movements.

But the real issues with karate IMO are:
- the only sparring you do is point contact, which is totally useless as it's not realistic (a fight or a brawl is a continuos action till someone goes KO or runs away), and it gives you bad habits (you do a punch and then stop, while you should continue to attack relentlessly)
- you usually train to fight karatekas, not vs other styles or vs no style
- almost zero locks, throws, no chokes, and this is an enormous gap in the system
- too rigid: no flexibility
- parring: 90% of it is not applicable in a street or ring fight

My advice: you can continue to train in it, but try also something else in which you do i.e. full contact sparring or wrestling



Edited by - bncwd on September 27 2002 04:42:27

Mr. Donkeypenis
9/27/2002 7:45am,
Karate is great to train in, provided that they (not necessarily you) train in full-contact such as Kyokushin, Enshin, Ashihara, etc. Otherwise, any other form of so-called "Karate" is a cheap rip-off that is good for a workout and nothing else.

A.K.A MEAT

Gezere
9/27/2002 8:02am,
Karate is nice and a good base.

If you want to BRAWL then Kyokushin (my personal favorite) and its desendents, Ashihara, Enshin are the way to go like MEAT said.

If you don't want to be Billy Badass and just want good self defense techniques then I would look into Ryukyu styles more than Japanese forms. Where the Japanese focused more on POWER pummeling you opponent Ryukyu styles stressed WHERE to hit more. Plus the conditioning is better to have more functional strength.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

George Tourais
9/27/2002 8:11am,
I think you guys are right karate is a good base to start with but I would augment it with training in grappling and boxing with alittle Muay Thai thrown in.

Mr. Donkeypenis
9/27/2002 8:17am,
I'm far from being any kind of badass!! HA HA HA !!!

Seriously though, it's not about being a badass, it's about training in something that works. The real Japanese styles (Kyokushin, ect.) do. The others....?????

A.K.A MEAT

Miguksaram
9/27/2002 8:45am,
My first art was Shuri-ryu karate taught in the old fashion military style school. I enjoyed it very much and miss those types of school. As for the forms, well I guess I am a rare person on the list who actually enjoys doing them. :) I feel karate (traditional of course) when taught in the right way, is very effective.

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

darkface
9/27/2002 8:55am,
1. Karate is using static stances
2. Karate base some of its teaching through Katas
3. Karate uses non bimechanically correct punches and kicks
4. Karate uses unrealistic blocking
5. Karate does not tech good footwork

These are just a few factors that tells you Karate doesnt work in a real life scenario. My advice is to try Thai boxing instead.

Gezere
9/27/2002 10:50am,
MEAT,

I didn't mean that you were a badass I was just trying to show the difference in outlook. The Kyokushin type karate is called KENKA (Fighting/Brawling) It means it is designed to use the persons atheletic ablities to assit them. While okinawan karate trys not to rely on as much physical strength.

Darkface,

This is just a quick rebuttal

1. Stances are never meant to be static you should always be moving. Stance and postures are guidepost.

2. Nothing wrong with that. Kata are just training drills. EVERY art has some form of training drill.

3. Very wrong. The biomechanics taught in karate is VERY good. They keep the same princlpes as Boxing in "throwing you hip into the punch"

4. Depends on the system. Goju ryu is noted for soft deflecting blocks which are VERY realistic and effective.

5. Do you know what TENSHIN is and how it applies?

As for karate NOT working. There are TONS of pple that will disagree.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

Miguksaram
9/27/2002 11:08am,
I am one who would disagree with you DF...Thank you Asia for doing the rebuttals. It becomes a tiring task to right the same thing to the same "arguments" I hear all the time. :)

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

Choke
9/28/2002 1:34am,
No chokes in Karate? The grandmaster of my system of Karate wrote a book on them!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967674816/qid=1033190262/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-9380728-7881569?v=glance&n=507846

There are so many incarnations of Karate that to judge it by your expierience of one style alone is rediculous. My style of Goju-Ryu Karate places huge emphisis on chokeholds and joint locks as well as strikes. To put all styles of Karate under one umbrella is faulty.

Cast in the name of God. Ye not guilty.

Grappler240
9/28/2002 1:23pm,
karate is a joke.

don't waste your time.

G240

HaHa
9/28/2002 1:51pm,
I nominate Grappler to enter a knockdown karate tournament....adn then report back from intensive care.

bncwd
9/30/2002 3:31am,
Choke, by starting my post saying that I have done 4 years of Shotokan I thought it was clear that I was criticizing just the shotokan style.

I still have to see, though, karate guys who impresses me, but I admitt I have not seen all the styles (just three or four of them).
What I can say is that none of the school were Mcdojos, people trained hard and belts were not given so easily, but anyway the attitude was pretty "close minded", and the gaps in the system were still there: there was not any training on the punchbag, no paos training, no fullcontact sparring, no fullcontact application of throws, chokes etc.

This applied also to several kung fu or JJ school I saw though: my suggestion still is to have an open minded attitude and try something else.

patfromlogan
9/30/2002 11:44am,
In the late 60's and early 70's the Honolulu Kyokushin and Shotokan dojos would get together and spar. During this period Kenneth Funakoshi (Shotokan) and Del Griffith (Kyokushin) traded the championship of the Hawaiian open back and forth for five years. (Kenneth won 3 out of 5)

Having trained in both schools, I would say at that time and place there was not alot of difference. Perhaps Kyokushin was a bit more eclectic, but both were and are schools that demand respect, fitness, and fast hard sparring.

And, yes, if you think Karate is garbage, please go win a fullcontact tournament. The "internationals" Kyokushin were in New York in July so you've missed that, but there are plenty of other chances to prove that Karate doesn't work.

Mr. Donkeypenis
10/01/2002 8:20am,
I don't think that REAL karate (Kyokushin, etc.) is garbage, just the fake styles/dojos out there. You can tell these styles because...

They chamber their fists at hip level and leave their head undefended.

They teach no footwork.

They encourage deep, wide stances for striking applications.

They teach you to reach out to block attacks instead of parrying economically, catching, or clinching.

They teach you to low block with your arm against round / Thai kicks.

If your school is teaching you any of the above things mentioned, you are not learning karate, you are learning a cheap, watered down rip-off of a good martial art.

A.K.A MEAT