karate works, depending on the style. my style is one third strikes, a third throws, and a third joint locks, maybe more throws. but it does lack foot work and some stances are pointless, as well as some not so good self defence and kata's are to emphasized. but it is ok

I always explain it to my friends like this:

Karate vs. Jiu Jitsu when each person has trained for one year .... Jiu Jitsu wins or whatever style of full contact, Krav Maga, MMA crap, take your pick.

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 5 years ... Style X wins

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 10 years ... Style X wins

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 15 years ... Style X wins, MAYBE!!!

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 20 years ... Style X ONLY wins if the karate person was asleep when the fight happened.

But then I always add that traditional karate practitioners are not out to learn how to kill you they are looking for physical fitness, self-discipline, and self control.

I don't get it.

I always explain it to my friends like this:

Karate vs. Jiu Jitsu when each person has trained for one year .... Jiu Jitsu wins or whatever style of full contact, Krav Maga, MMA crap, take your pick.

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 5 years ... Style X wins

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 10 years ... Style X wins

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 15 years ... Style X wins, MAYBE!!!

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 20 years ... Style X ONLY wins if the karate person was asleep when the fight happened.

But then I always add that traditional karate practitioners are not out to learn how to kill you they are looking for physical fitness, self-discipline, and self control.


Wait...... what?

I always explain it to my friends like this:

Karate vs. Jiu Jitsu when each person has trained for one year .... Jiu Jitsu wins or whatever style of full contact, Krav Maga, MMA crap, take your pick.

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 5 years ... Style X wins

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 10 years ... Style X wins

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 15 years ... Style X wins, MAYBE!!!

Karate vs. full contact style X when each person has trained for 20 years ... Style X ONLY wins if the karate person was asleep when the fight happened.

But then I always add that traditional karate practitioners are not out to learn how to kill you they are looking for physical fitness, self-discipline, and self control.


Do you also explain to your friends what is a strawman argument?

Karate is not complete bullshit I think.

Yes it's right that it was tougher before Funakoshi made it a little simpler.But it's not a complete loser right now too (even shotokan)

Yes there are lots of disadvantages.(Like point contact sparring,no groundfighting etc.)

But we have to accept that it has advantages too.


First of all I want to clarify something.We see karate practitioners work it in deep stances and do all the moves very very traditional ways.

I don't know what other countries do but in here even teachers of shotokan say this:
"you can't win a fight with these techniques.Cuz you can't use these like this."

The reason of that deep stances and etc. is to do it in the hardest way.

I can give an example like this.

For example I started to learn english right now.When they ask me my name I learned that I have to say : "My name is asdasd"
But when the hell in real life you say "my name is asdasd" when they ask you, you just say "asdasd" thats all.

What they do in karate is to teach you the moves in the hardest and most unusable way (with static movement I think) but when you learn it you can apply that in any situation even on high stances.

Kicks are good but now the best , but a shotokan practitioner which works his punches on makiwara's or something like that (what I mean is , when they learn how to "hit" ) will have real powerful handwork.And while lots of hand techniques are just myths(or you need not hands,you have to be a stone giant or something to apply them.Need really hard fingers.) , there are some hand techniques like shuto's (sword hand you can say) which is really usable in a real life situation.
(You must have seen the fight between pimp vs karate fighter.I thought it was famous.But if you didn't I can find it to you)

And the blocks.No one uses most of them in sparring.Cuz they are really unrealistic.But you use the variations of them.I can say that sparring and technical blockings are completely different.And you learn how to use your body too.So it's not very hard for a karate practitioner to protect himself.


There is 2 big handicaps of karate I think however (especially shotokan)
1) No strength improving techniques,no hitting experience and point contact sparring.It makes the fighters fightability only in theory.Most of shotokan sparrers are ballets.

2)No groundfighting.When you get yourself grappled, you have to do your best to get your ass saved cuz your time is coming to an end in that fight if your only groundwork is shotokan.


But if this 2 were understood by federations or teachers or whatsoever karate would be a respected sport right now I think.


However my opinion is karate is a good base.If you take that base and improve yourself a little, and get a croos tech. like judo or BJJ you can be a good fighter.



**

By the way let me tell you a story of a friend of mine.He is a ex-shotokan practitioner but right now the just comes to dojo and do boxing with no instructor.And I can say that he is pretty tough.
He told me of a situation which occured when he was young.

On high school he was disturbed by a boy continously.My friend get very angry at last and attacked him.The boy was very afraid when he was attacked so closed his arms on his head waiting to be beaten.
But my friend, doing shotokan for a long time, point contacted him :D What I mean is,because of his reflexes he couldn't hit him in the time of danger.He "controlled" his punch unwillingly.
With the confusion of my friend, and the boy getting is courage they had a wrestle like fighting and my friend was beaten. :)


This story is a good example of shotokan.

with all respect...

Well, I'm new to this forum; just signed up tonight. There's some interesting stuff here, I guess, but when it comes to the opinions in this forum, I'm not really surprised, but I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed. I know I shouldn’t be though. This is the west and it’s understandable that most people have no clue what they’re talking about when it comes to traditional martial arts. Oh, they know a lot about gladiator sports, Thai boxing, MMA, IFC and the like, but true martial arts; not a clue. Of course there are a few intelligent posts in this blog. I liked this guy;

1. Stances are never meant to be static you should always be moving. Stance and postures are guidepost.

2. Nothing wrong with that. Kata are just training drills. EVERY art has some form of training drill.

3. Very wrong. The biomechanics taught in karate is VERY good. They keep the same princlpes as Boxing in "throwing you hip into the punch"

4. Depends on the system. Goju ryu is noted for soft deflecting blocks which are VERY realistic and effective.

5. Do you know what TENSHIN is and how it applies?

MEAT was the name I think.

But this guy…

1. Karate is using static stances
2. Karate base some of its teaching through Katas
3. Karate uses non bimechanically correct punches and kicks
4. Karate uses unrealistic blocking
5. Karate does not tech good footwork

“Darkface” was it? I just have to laugh. The case of another American (or some other English speaking westerner) fool who watches the basic training in traditional Karate (no, not the McDojo crap, which is easily 90% of what you see out there), judges it as unrealistic based merely on what he sees, having no idea where that training leads. Then there’s this other guy in an earlier post who trained no further than Brown Belt (3rd to 1st Kyu) and quits thinking he has enough knowledge to assess it’s weaknesses. I guess it’s the cultural thing; the quest for the quick fix and instant gratification. Well, here’s a reality check for you guys. Brown belt is nothing. A brown belt has not even fully learned how to stand, much less walk. Shodan is nothing. A shodan has barely learned how to walk and execute a small handful of basic technique with something resembling power. A nidan is just scratching the surface of learning how to move freely and apply technique to a moving target. In traditional karate, at least the Shorin styles, it’s not until sandan, or a minimum of 10 years of HARD raining that true fighting skills begin to emerge. But hey, what’s the hurry. It’s a martial ART, not a gladiator sport. Standing tow to tow with some sweaty thug in a contest to determine who the ultimate “warrior” is, is not what these arts are designed for. They are designed to, in the confusion of a violent eruption, to make a quick decision, take out the nearest threat as quickly as possible, and get your ass to safety. Yes, we have our tournaments, but no well educated Karate-ka in this country or Japan has any illusions that the tournament represents a real street conflict. These are mearely contests which put the skills of speed, timing, and strategy to the test. The real training and practical application of technique is found in kihon and kata. It just takes the patient man to discover it. But such patience is not a virtue in most of us in the west. We need things spoon fed to us, or we doubt its existence. We need to see proof in the octagon, and the approval of popular opinion or we doubt its effectiveness. The laughable thing is; it doesn’t matter what you do. The only ones who will become truly effective are those who train hard; I’m talking full time. Whether you train in traditional karate, Muay Thai, MMA, boxing…., it doesn’t matter, if you’re just the weekend warrior, training two or three times a week, what ever you do is little more than recreation anyway and your quest for a fighting art that will work for you in the face of real violence is pretty fanciful anyway. You’re better off buying a gun and practicing yoga. It’s easier on the brain & joints.

Well, I'm new to this forum; just signed up tonight. There's some interesting stuff here, I guess, but when it comes to the opinions in this forum, I'm not really surprised, but I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed. I know I shouldn’t be though. This is the west and it’s understandable that most people have no clue what they’re talking about when it comes to traditional martial arts. Oh, they know a lot about gladiator sports, Thai boxing, MMA, IFC and the like, but true martial arts; not a clue. Of course there are a few intelligent posts in this blog. I liked this guy;

1. Stances are never meant to be static you should always be moving. Stance and postures are guidepost.

2. Nothing wrong with that. Kata are just training drills. EVERY art has some form of training drill.

3. Very wrong. The biomechanics taught in karate is VERY good. They keep the same princlpes as Boxing in "throwing you hip into the punch"

4. Depends on the system. Goju ryu is noted for soft deflecting blocks which are VERY realistic and effective.

5. Do you know what TENSHIN is and how it applies?

MEAT was the name I think.

But this guy…

1. Karate is using static stances
2. Karate base some of its teaching through Katas
3. Karate uses non bimechanically correct punches and kicks
4. Karate uses unrealistic blocking
5. Karate does not tech good footwork

“Darkface” was it? I just have to laugh. The case of another American (or some other English speaking westerner) fool who watches the basic training in traditional Karate (no, not the McDojo crap, which is easily 90% of what you see out there), judges it as unrealistic based merely on what he sees, having no idea where that training leads. Then there’s this other guy in an earlier post who trained no further than Brown Belt (3rd to 1st Kyu) and quits thinking he has enough knowledge to assess it’s weaknesses. I guess it’s the cultural thing; the quest for the quick fix and instant gratification.

LOL, checking your IP address: you're posting from Colorado. Also, Alex doesn't sound like a very Eastern name to me...


Well, here’s a reality check for you guys. Brown belt is nothing. A brown belt has not even fully learned how to stand, much less walk. Shodan is nothing. A shodan has barely learned how to walk and execute a small handful of basic technique with something resembling power. A nidan is just scratching the surface of learning how to move freely and apply technique to a moving target. In traditional karate, at least the Shorin styles, it’s not until sandan, or a minimum of 10 years of HARD raining that true fighting skills begin to emerge. But hey, what’s the hurry. It’s a martial ART, not a gladiator sport. Standing tow to tow

I'm sure you meant "toe" but carry on....


with some sweaty thug in a contest to determine who the ultimate “warrior” is, is not what these arts are designed for. They are designed to, in the confusion of a violent eruption, to make a quick decision, take out the nearest threat as quickly as possible, and get your ass to safety. Yes, we have our tournaments, but no well educated Karate-ka in this country or Japan has any illusions that the tournament represents a real street conflict. These are mearely contests which put the skills of speed, timing, and strategy to the test. The real training and practical application of technique is found in kihon and kata. It just takes the patient man to discover it. But such patience is not a virtue in most of us in the west. We need things spoon fed to us, or we doubt its existence. We need to see proof in the octagon, and the approval of popular opinion or we doubt its effectiveness. The laughable thing is; it doesn’t matter what you do. The only ones who will become truly effective are those who train hard; I’m talking full time. Whether you train in traditional karate, Muay Thai, MMA, boxing…., it doesn’t matter, if you’re just the weekend warrior, training two or three times a week, what ever you do is little more than recreation anyway and your quest for a fighting art that will work for you in the face of real violence is pretty fanciful anyway. You’re better off buying a gun and practicing yoga. It’s easier on the brain & joints.

I'm sorry, are you saying karate (and any other form of martial arts) only work for those who choose to do it "full time?"

Cause that is utter bullshit.

You guys have taken text dumps on you "art". Uechi is the only ryu worth fighting with. You have been warned. Uechi Rru... the only art that will kick you out and beat your ass if you cannot exhibit psychosis.

P.S. The other real krotty begins with a G

P.S. The other real krotty begins with a G

Let's not talk about your gay krotchy.

And yes, I know you are talking about Goju.

So we have something in common...our name! What's with the rodents/bunnies? Easy to get off xchan perhaps... I see what you did there!

Seriously, LOL.

UR My majik bunny lulz

LOL, checking your IP address: you're posting from Colorado. Also, Alex doesn't sound like a very Eastern name to me...



I'm sure you meant "toe" but carry on....



I'm sorry, are you saying karate (and any other form of martial arts) only work for those who choose to do it "full time?"

Cause that is utter bullshit.

Well "Steve", let's get a few things clear. I never claimed to be "Eastern". I'm only commenting from the perspective of someone who has lived in Japan several years, has worked in Corporate Japan for many more years than that, is fluent and literate in Japanese, and has spent the better part of 25 years training in a traditional martial art. Despite all that, I don't consider myself an expert in any respect. However, I do think I have more insight into Japanese sensibilities than most (certainly not all) white boys pursuing these arts. This being the case, I can tell you one thing, you will never hear such pointless banter among Japanese martial artists as to what "style" in better than another. Even though my chosen art is JKA Shotokan and I will be faithful to that lineage till I die; while in Japan I trained in many different dojo's of as many different styles. Be it Shotokan, Goju, Shito, Enshin, or Aikido, all budo-ka in Japan have one thing in common; they respected each other's arts, understand the merits of each, and know fully well that a man well trained in any on these arts will be a man to contend with. A well trained Shotokan man will have punches and kicks that will to serious damage to their target and he will have to skill to get that technique to the target, be it in the shiai-jo, dojo, or street. Someone trained in Enshin, Kyokushin, Aikido or whatever stands to fare no better, no worse. It comes down to how well they are trained, and how willing are they to commit themselves to the task without regard to the possible outcome. This and this alone is what will determine the winner in a life and death conflict; not what "style" they study This is what any mature martial artist understands and this is why you will never hear inane discussions like these among Japanese budoka. This is also why, when a high level Japanese instructor in the west hears of such discussions and debates among their students, they just shake their heads, resigned to the fact that we just don't get it, and except for rare exceptions, likely never will.

....... no further than Brown Belt (3rd to 1st Kyu) and quits thinking he has enough knowledge to assess it’s weaknesses. I guess it’s the cultural thing; the quest for the quick fix and instant gratification. Well, here’s a reality check for you guys. Brown belt is nothing. A brown belt has not even fully learned how to stand, much less walk. Shodan is nothing. A shodan has barely learned how to walk and execute a small handful of basic technique with something resembling power. A nidan is just scratching the surface of learning how to move freely and apply technique to a moving target. In traditional karate, at least the Shorin styles, it’s not until sandan, or a minimum of 10 years of HARD raining that true fighting skills begin to emerge. But hey, what’s the hurry. ............

Onegai Shimasu,

Hangetsu,

I was actually hoping to hear more inspiring comments from the traditional Karateka. I understand your point about having patience, but you have to admit, saying that its going to take 10 years to acquire fighting skill is depressing.

I expect to be practicing Karate in 10 years, its not that I don't have patience.... but are you saying that I should not expect to be able to defend myself if attacked, lets say, a year from now because I won't be a sandan? (in my style, I'll probably be a Green belt by then).

What should I do for the next 10 years then? Walk around armed? Its not sarcasm, but a serious question?

Thanks