i agree 100%
Under those rules they would have to fight with the same tight restrictions - so it would come down to the individual fighter. And all this "we use these rules but in the ring its different" is crap - if you don't train to fight without the rules, you won't do well without them. You won't be used to fighting with full on punches and kicks everywhere, having a ref scream point and break you up, and being grabbed and clinched. Give us something with substance, please.
&lt;Me&gt; John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? &lt;John&gt; *smacks me*
&lt;John&gt; I'd have to smack you sometime...
TKD, when compared to Muay Thai, is a joke. there are alot of really good techniques in TKD but they're practiced so unrealistically that they might as well never have been practiced at all.
I've been kicked by ALOT of TKD guys. I dont see whats worth talking about. Have you ever gone to a Kyokushin tournament? Go to one. You'll see some TKD guys who wanted to try it(its bare knuckle fullcontact Karate). I've seen Kyokushin fighters stand with their hands raised taking FULL CONTACT KICKS to the body on PURPOSE just to demoralize their opponent. I saw one guy SMILE while his opponent threw 4 full contact round kicks to his ribs. When his opponent was done kicking he was grabbed and kneed in the face.
As far as striking goes Muay Thai is the best art for hitting people. Theres no argument to be made. It takes the most realistic movements and pairs them with hard phsysical training and sparring under rules that are as realistic as you can get without grappling.
"Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
Ok...so no one has yet to answer my question. I 100% agree that if a TKD player trains nothing but WTF/ITF style of sparring and is pitted against a MT player and told to fight each other under the rules they the train in for fighting/tournaments, the MT guy would wipe up the mat with the TKD guy. I don't believe I have said other wise....
I wish for the love of whatever you hold sacred that you would get it out of your thick skulls that ALL TKD schools train for nothing but tournaments. The only thing that you have said so far is that under strict rules in which they would both be bound by, it would fall upon the individual fighter. Which has always been the point that I have been trying to make all along. :)
Now as far as Kyokushin is concerned...They're all wimps! ha.haha...KIDDING..KIDDING...CHILL OUT I WAS JUST KIDDING. :) I personally think those guys are crazy. I would also not want to piss them off in the ring or the street. :)
Jeremy M. Talbott
I have been kicked by ATA people. I felt nothing. (American TKD Association) It was pretty sad.
There are a few different ways to throw a round kick. Point sparring limits you to slap kicks. There are other ways.
1. You could SLAP WITH YOUR INSTEP to jar the jaw.
2. You could POKE WITH YOUR TOES (in shoes) OR THE BALL OF YOUR FOOT to his groin.
3. You could SWING YOUR INSTEP/SHIN IN AND HOOK around his neck with your foot on a high impact kick.
4. You can WHIP YOUR KICK IN LIKE A BASEBALL BAT, USING YOUR SHIN to impact his leg or ribs like in MT.
5. You can jump forward and SMACK YOUR SHIN into his stomach/low abdomen, his spine or his knee.
The list goes on and on .. but in point sparring you can only use one round kick. The instep slap kick to the jaw .. or very incorrectly to the chest. An instep kick to the chest would not do as much damage as your shin would by any means.
&gt;&gt; Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643
I love kyokushin, any sport where you can knee your opponent in the face has got to be good.
&gt;Now as far as Kyokushin is concerned...They're all wimps! ha.haha...KIDDING..KIDDING...CHILL OUT I WAS JUST KIDDING. :) I personally think those guys are crazy. I would also not want to piss them off in the ring or the street. :)
&lt;craking knuckles&gt; WIMPS EH!!!! You're right Kyokushin guys are all wimps. Next time you see one go up to him yank off his belt and smack him around with it.
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
I would be more than happy to do that Asia, as long as that person is about 10 years old..Only then do I think I would have a chance. :) ha.ha.ha...
Again, I do have a lot of respect for those guys because they are extrememly hardcore. Please note the (ha.ha..ha.. and the KIDDING part of the last message.) :)
Jeremy M. Talbott
I agree that even under ustu or wtf rules people don't follow them. People at my tkd school always kick to the thigh and the back and the face.
"The night has come and all you lived for was in the day, but with understanding the night can be a powerfull alley"
Getting back to the origianl question, anything TKD has over MT? O.k we're not comparing whole arts here jsut looking for any one thing TKD maybee has thats uselfull that MT doesn't.
1. a solid side kick - I know somebody mentioned it before but it's worth while. I've been lifted a foot of the floor and slammed into the wall 2 feet behind me by a TKD side kick. Ther was a 6 inch bruise on my side that night.
2. precision point kicks with the ball or tip of the foot/shoe like in savate - solar plexus, temple etc.
3. stomp/downward side kick to the outside if the knee. - o.k. so it's not as good as a thai round to the knee but it can work and it's not in the MT repetoire.
That being said, 2 and 3 are both out in tounaments. I competed in a so called full contact tournament way back when and was completely turned off by the fact that the best 2 hits in my first and last match were deemed illegal. He landed a solid hook to the tip of my chin.-(ref steps in warns of excessive contact to the head) I countered his opening roundhouse with a spinning back kick which landed *oops* below the belt - probably right to the bladder. (ref steps in and warns me of illegally striking below the belt.) oh well. The end of my tournament career.
MT kicks to the body and head so much more effciently, with more power and even speed than TKD they're incomparable, except maybe for the aesthetics - imo MT kicks look better, so even this aspect isn't comparable. Only if you enjoy TKD more can you justifiably come to the conclusion that it's "better".
Tkd fighter the MT kick to the head and the body are more powerful, but I can't expalin the pysics, just that more body weight it used, they're faster, you really "kick through" the opponent, the shin makes for a strionger kick (something to do with it's smaller surface area.)
my god I'm so sick of this point sparring bull ****. I have never in my training ever gone to a point sparring TKD I don't even know what the flying **** point sparring it is other then supposedly all TKD schools use it so they suck. At my school my insctuctor could give a flying **** about tourney's all he wnats us to learn is to defend our selves and when we spar it's all choice you can wear as much or as little gear as possible kick as hard or as light as you want use any technique you fucking feel like all he cares is about as conditiong and learning to deal and take pain. So stop with this fucking all TKD schools pcratice point sparring and there fore suck coz it's utter bullshit.
Just Bring It!
Remember that Boxing has the best hands,muay thai guys may have good hands (they may train boxing as well) and the most effetive every other strike but boxers will always have the best hand striking techniques.
Man you TKD guys need to get up to speed. TKD does use the shin (Jong Kweang i) to kick with, usually when using a front kick or turning kick in close. The chamber is more than an implied knee it is a knee. The knee (moorup) is used in close with both the front kick (the chamber) and turning kick (lower leg stays chambered).
TKD also has leg hooks, trips, eye gouges, throws, jabs, hooks, locks, head butts, elbows, attacks to pressure points, kicking an opponent on the ground and a whole host of other things.
What TKD doesn't have is very many people who teach these things. I guess they don't look TKDish.
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