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Upyu
1/22/2008 6:41pm,
Naaaani?!??! Chigau-yo!

The cells of the heart muscle differ from other muscle cells only in that their contractions are automatic (as you can see by looking at one under a microscope). They only require external stimuli to coordinate their contractions, or you've got fibrillation and the blood doesn't get pumped. These muscle cells don't "expand" any more than do other muscle cells.

Back to topic: sure, one can punch without force added via the calf muscles which lift the heel. While one is at it, one can also consider other handicaps: tie a hand behind the back, wear a blindfold, and so on.

Why, though?
www, wikipedia ni damasaretana ^^;

Anyways, that's true within the punching mechanic you describe.

Another way to look at it, is to look at a person's two legs as having a similar structure as that of a bridge. If you can connect both legs as an entire unit, you can pass force through the "arch", or in this case, both legs.
This means that the power generation, can come from front leg, pass through the "arch", and to the rear heel, and at the same time travel upwards through the crotch, out the spine etc etc

Verbally, all this is kind of useless to explain, but there is a significant difference in feel.

Summary, you can get an extremely heavy punch that naturally uses 100% body weight, without committing your body weight in any one direction (sounds contradictory, I know), and expending much much less energy.
No forceful using of the calf muscles to drive the heel up is used either.

The downside to this, is that it's a skill that takes a while to learn and also requires conditioning of the body that's pretty unusual to most people.

Then you can get into other additives, like using the stretch of the fascia to add to the power of the hit etc, slamming the diaphragm down, causing the force to ricochet into the legs and back up, in order to produce power for the hit, etc.

Again, this stuff needs to be felt, and can't be simply explained in words.

Vieux Normand
1/23/2008 7:38am,
As stated, no doubt people can KO others punching from the heel, especially if there's sufficient size differential (a jab--or even just an arm-only punch from a superheavyweight--may pack as much force as a 'correct' boxing punch from a member of some other weight-classes). Another use for the heel-punch occurs when a person with an ankle or arch injury--or permanent limitation such as a permanently fused ankle--has no choice but to punch from the heel.

The usual principle in any forceful activity, though, is termed "summation of all muscles and joints involved"...which is why baseball pitchers don't just use their throwing arm to toss the ball: every possible part of the body is put into the pitch.

Upyu
1/23/2008 9:10am,
As stated, no doubt people can KO others punching from the heel, especially if there's sufficient size differential (a jab--or even just an arm-only punch from a superheavyweight--may pack as much force as a 'correct' boxing punch from a member of some other weight-classes). Another use for the heel-punch occurs when a person with an ankle or arch injury--or permanent limitation such as a permanently fused ankle--has no choice but to punch from the heel.

The usual principle in any forceful activity, though, is termed "summation of all muscles and joints involved"...which is why baseball pitchers don't just use their throwing arm to toss the ball: every possible part of the body is put into the pitch.

Ok, one thing I want to make clear though...
Punching from the heel isn't a technique, its only part of a method to accquire an unusual and fairly powerful way to throw strikes.
On thing is that, while a lot of people say the same thing you just said with regards to "summation of all muscles and joints involved", it can vary a lot in meaning :)

Rob

Shuma-Gorath
1/23/2008 9:25am,
Keep in mind that Upyu once posted about grappling with your back flat on the ground and claimed you could throw heavy punches from under mount by using tension in your spine.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36606

Teh El Macho
1/23/2008 9:47am,
^^^ Wow. What a clusterfuck of a thread.


Again, this stuff needs to be felt, and can't be simply explained in words.Are we talking about some miasmal, ethereal, hard-to-graps stuff, like quantum mechanics?

Fine, let's assume it can't be simply explained in words. There gotta be some way to explain the body mechanics of these things in a methodical, precise, replicable manner. Otherwise, all of this sounds like hocus pocus disguised with anatomical terms.

Upyu
1/24/2008 2:37am,
Keep in mind that Upyu once posted about grappling with your back flat on the ground and claimed you could throw heavy punches from under mount by using tension in your spine.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36606

Sure, and like I said, no that's met us has called BS on any of this stuff.
And yes you can throw heavy punches from under the mount. ;)
Its easy, but requires some adjustments in posture. Understanding how the body works as a load bearing device is crucial. Don't knock it till you feel it dude.

Upyu
1/24/2008 2:41am,
^^^ Wow. What a clusterfuck of a thread.

Are we talking about some miasmal, ethereal, hard-to-graps stuff, like quantum mechanics?

Fine, let's assume it can't be simply explained in words. There gotta be some way to explain the body mechanics of these things in a methodical, precise, replicable manner. Otherwise, all of this sounds like hocus pocus disguised with anatomical terms.

Nope, not ethereal at all.
Its just body mechanics that are, at heart, completely unusual in how they're performed.
I could outline them (actually I already have, they're in the "how-to" section here in Bullshido).
They do have to be shown though, if you want to get your foot in the door.

If there's anyone in the DC area in May that's interested in calling BS, then I'm game to meet up ;)

Teh El Macho
1/24/2008 3:01pm,
How about a youtube clip for the likes of us who aren't in the DC area?

I''l rephrase this again: There gotta be some way to explain the body mechanics of these things in a methodical, precise, replicable manner. Otherwise, all of this sounds like hocus pocus disguised with anatomical terms.

Or you can only explain the mechanics of these techniques only face to face, specially if someone's calling BS? Those would be very context-specific body mechanics if that the case.

Teh El Macho
1/24/2008 3:02pm,
I could outline them (actually I already have, they're in the "how-to" section here in Bullshido).Linkie? Can't seem to find it. Thanks.

Upyu
1/24/2008 6:47pm,
I guess there's no more "Article" section here?

Anyways, here's the article that used to be posted in Bullshido:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10763&highlight=%22Training+Martial%22

I

Torakaka
1/24/2008 7:55pm,
And yes you can throw heavy punches from under the mount. ;)


If I could ban you from strikeistan I would. Instead I'm deporting this thread to the armpit of bullshido.

Plasma
1/24/2008 9:42pm,
is that how i fucking got this thread? This is the technique question not the JMA Bullshido or historical question. Back to Strikeistan.

PirateJon
1/25/2008 8:09am,
OH SNAP!

*snaps*

*walks away sassily*

WhiteShark
1/25/2008 9:46am,
We aren't mature enough to discuss opposing points of view. :(

I'll open this when we are...