Fencing originally was developed to be a martial art and to train as such to defend and attack with a sword. Simply making it non-lethal and assigning points (the result of turning ANY practice into a sport) doesnt detract from its original purpose. I didnt say anything about that being the only reason a person does but it IS an aspect in more than a few. If you like playing with swords cool, if you like playing with swords competitively thats great to. But dont pretend fencing isnt neo classical martial arts revisionism reimagined

On your other topic, im not going to pretend that you have a source to back that statement up but as far as insurgency and guerrilla fighting goes, stabbing or cutting deaths must be fractionally insignificant compared to those via gunshots. For all the press the Congo Machete gangs got back in the late 90's it was still the good ole fashion AK and FAL that did the most damage. If you can prove me wrong im up for it though


In the last fencing team I was on, out of 40 people there was exactly one who did any kind of historical reenactment. I don't think the contention that people's reasons for participating in the sport of fencing is very similar to their reasons for playing tennis or soccer is really contentious. People do the sport because it's fun and athletic. If you want reenactment, there are simply better venues to pursue it than the activity of fencing.

I want to do ARMA-type **** with the japanese sword, but it's been pretty hard to convince the traditional sword practitioners that I know to try it out with me.

Fencing originally was developed to be a martial art and to train as such to defend and attack with a sword. Simply making it non-lethal and assigning points (the result of turning ANY practice into a sport) doesnt detract from its original purpose. I didnt say anything about that being the only reason a person does but it IS an aspect in more than a few. If you like playing with swords cool, if you like playing with swords competitively thats great to. But dont pretend fencing isnt neo classical martial arts revisionism reimagined

SPORT /= LARPING.

YOU LOSE.

Go ahead and address any of the arguments I laid out above.

Otherwise, you're just a waste of time.

Why bother? you cant even define sport correctly. Sport is nothing more than an activity that is performed competitively against another. A prime example would be Jousting. a LARPish activity since your usage of the phrase seems to only extend to what people where and not what they do. Jousting is a sport but its also Larping. Sport and Larping arent necessarily mutually exclusive despite your erroneous belief otherwise.

That a person can competitively Larp is beyond you in the same sense that a a recognized sport is only considered not larping because of its official recognition by some over arching governing body. 2 jokers on youtube hitting each other with foam swords while wearing period clothing isnt much different from to jokers on ESPN hitting each other with electronic stylus while wearing official protective gear. The reasons maybe different but the activity is the same. Get over it.

The reasons maybe different but the activity is the same. Get over it.

Except that the reason is what makes it a LARP. By definition.
Someone doing NHB fighting who goes naked and prays to zeus first in an attempt to recreate olympic pankraiton is LARPing. He may very well be doing kickass NHB sport fighting at the same time. Someone playing swishy pokey with wire toys wearing a fencing jacket is not LARPing. Whatever you think of their sport.

Thanks for the linkie sir Ocelot, I gotta say after reading threw some of the threads. John Clements does come off as a tad arrogant. But then again could be like Annatrocity said and his "no-bullshit" can just make him come off as such. Kinda like some folks here, obviously know what their talking about, but humility is not exactly a strong point.

Well like I've said before, just my opinion take it for what you will.

I've met John - he's a character.

Most of the ARMA folks I actually know are pretty good people, they train hard. Some real quality research being done by some of them as well.

Except that the reason is what makes it a LARP. By definition.
Someone doing NHB fighting who goes naked and prays to zeus first in an attempt to recreate olympic pankraiton is LARPing. He may very well be doing kickass NHB sport fighting at the same time. Someone playing swishy pokey with wire toys wearing a fencing jacket is not LARPing. Whatever you think of their sport.Thanks for that explanation. But wouldnt your example be highly similar to a person who takes for example iado, dresses up in a hakama and spends the first half hour of practice going over ritual meditation before actual practice? What makes dressing up like a Roman and praising Zeus while flashing a Sparda any different LARP wise, than a person dressing up in a Kimono saying shinto chants and flashing a Katana?

The whole point im trying to make i guess is that alot of stuff IS larping but isnt considered larping for whatever reason. That reason remains unknown to me.

I'll admit to having fenced competitively in junior college. My honest opinion is that it's a worthwhile sport and developed the best reflexes I ever had in my life.

But anyone who fences with their hand above their head IS a LARPist. And probably a ****** too.

The whole point im trying to make i guess is that alot of stuff IS larping but isnt considered larping for whatever reason. That reason remains unknown to me.

Nothing in life has clean boundaries. I think in your example, my question would be whether the person is really into zen, or really into hakama. :tongue5:

Why bother? you cant even define sport correctly.

I don't need to define sport. The issue here is not sport. The issue is LARPing. That's what needs to be defined.


Sport is nothing more than an activity that is performed competitively against another.

Fail.

By your definition, Iron Chef is a sport. Mathematics competitions are a sport. Beauty pagaents are a sport.

Sorry, bro. I am not saying this to be arrogant, but I've been here longer than you, so just take this as a beginner's tour. Others here will tell you that if you want to argue or debate with me, you're going to have to step up to the bat. Come correct and with your A game, because I am used to debating with people who get paid to write papers on ethics, epistemology, and aesthetics. Any slips in logic or out right fallacies will be exploited.

Your definition is such an over simplification that it is out right wrong.

By your definition, WAR itself is a sport.


A prime example would be Jousting. a LARPish activity since your usage of the phrase seems to only extend to what people where and not what they do. Jousting is a sport but its also Larping.

Jousting is not in and of itself LARPing.

What makes it LARPing?

If jousting is LARPing, then is Polo LARPing?

In fact, here in Maryland, Jousting is the official state sport.

If I train in horseback riding, and train to dismount my opponent using a lance, I am not LARPing. If I compete against my opponent in jousting, I am not LARPing. I am competing in a sport, an athletic endeavour.

If I do it at the Renaissance Festival, pretending to belong to the House MacLeod, in a scripted contest that rarely ever changes, that is LARPing. If I re-enact a jousting contest that happened 500 years ago, I am LARPing.


Sport and Larping arent necessarily mutually exclusive despite your erroneous belief otherwise.

That is not what I have been arguing. Re-evaluate.


That a person can competitively Larp is beyond you in the same sense that a a recognized sport is only considered not larping because of its official recognition by some over arching governing body.

Again, incorrect.

See my above jousting example, or consider the below.

In a kendo match, I am not playing the role of Bob Musashi of the Clan Takeda, facing my opponent, the deadly Bubba Joe Shinobi. I am myself, Joe Smith, seeing how my training with a shinai fairs against, John Q. Public.

IF I AM NOT PLAYING A ROLE, I AM NOT LARPING.

It is literally that simple. To say otherwise is to extend the definition of LARPing beyond what it is meant to be, and is only self-serving to those who would disdain people who engage in martial pursuits that have no immediate practical value.


2 jokers on youtube hitting each other with foam swords while wearing period clothing isnt much different from to jokers on ESPN hitting each other with electronic stylus while wearing official protective gear.

The fact that you cannot see the difference is telling.


The reasons maybe different but the activity is the same.

You're getting closer now.


Get over it.

Ninja, please...

Take a basic course in logic.

Oh, and Happy early anniversary.


Thanks for that explanation. But wouldnt your example be highly similar to a person who takes for example iado, dresses up in a hakama and spends the first half hour of practice going over ritual meditation before actual practice? What makes dressing up like a Roman and praising Zeus while flashing a Sparda any different LARP wise, than a person dressing up in a Kimono saying shinto chants and flashing a Katana?

Iaido is not a sport. It does not have a competitive aspect. It is a cultural practice based on earlier martial practices. Engaging in it entails engaging in certain cultural practices.

It's only LARPing if you're pretending you're a samurai. If you're John Smith, who wants to learn Iaido, then it's not LARPing. Engaging in certain Zen practices are part and parcel of the study. You're not pretending to meditate. You actually are.

Does engaging in the practices of a culture not your own automatically mean LARPing?

Are Japanese people who practice Iaido not LARPing while white people who practice Iaido are LARPers?


The whole point im trying to make i guess is that alot of stuff IS larping but isnt considered larping for whatever reason. That reason remains unknown to me.

You have yet to prove what is LARPing and what isn't.

To do so, you must first define LARPing. Otherwise, you'll just be talking out your ass.

IF I AM NOT PLAYING A ROLE, I AM NOT LARPING.

Got it in one.


You have yet to prove what is LARPing and what isn't.

To do so, you must first define LARPing. Otherwise, you'll just be talking out your ass.

You just did that for him, not that it needs definng. LARP=live-action role-playing. No playing a role, no LARP.

When I fenced competitively, I was me fencing. It's a sport. If I go to an SCA event to fight one of their weapons things and use a persona name and do all the foolishness that goes along with that, I'm LARPing. It's a sport - it's a physical activity, it's competitive and there's a winner and a loser. But's it's also a LARP.

But anyone who fences with their hand above their head IS a LARPist. And probably a ****** too.

Do you mean the off hand? Because there are classical guards that has the swordhand above the head. Personally I don't use it, and many books on fencing agree that you should not use it as a guard for very long (It's awkward), but it does exist.

Holy ****

Errant198 for the win

Holy ****

Errant198 for the win

Well to nitpick, there are iaido tournaments, where two people do kata simultaneously before 3 judges, the winner advances on to the next bracket in the tournament. The national one is in 2 weeks.

Does that make iaido a sport?

Well to nitpick, there are iaido tournaments, where two people do kata simultaneously before 3 judges, the winner advances on to the next bracket in the tournament. The national one is in 2 weeks.

Does that make iaido a sport?No, an art that has a competitive aspect.

Well to nitpick, there are iaido tournaments, where two people do kata simultaneously before 3 judges, the winner advances on to the next bracket in the tournament. The national one is in 2 weeks.

Does that make iaido a sport?

Not sure. Depends what you consider a sport. Guess you can argue it either way. I figure you can dump 30 pages of argument into semantics.

If it involves compitition at some level (like it does) then I have no problem with calling it a sport.