I don't know about how you guys, but I think the UFC and WEC fights are being stopped to early, especially from punches. A guy gets knocked down, and a lot of times ref jumps in before seeing if fighter is really hurt. I don't know what solution is, but too many times a guy gets caught (like Liddell) and it's over. What also bothers me, is MMA guys don't seem to take a good punch and may be one reason why fights end early....

So your main style is 'Mixed martial Arts'?

Have you ever been hit with a boxing gloves and compared it to 4-ounce gloves?

lidell was fucked. i dont know whats wrong with you but that fight was stopped exactly when it was needed to, he was floored and unlike kickboxing/boxing he wasnt going to get 10 seconds to recover.

I don't know about how you guys, but I think the UFC and WEC fights are being stopped to early, especially from punches. A guy gets knocked down, and a lot of times ref jumps in before seeing if fighter is really hurt. I don't know what solution is, but too many times a guy gets caught (like Liddell) and it's over. What also bothers me, is MMA guys don't seem to take a good punch and may be one reason why fights end early....

You don't know what you're talking about. Liddell didn't complain, so you shouldn't be either.

Here's what you should do...have one of your friends put on a 10oz boxing glove and punch you as hard as he can. Then have him put on a 4oz MMA glove and do the same thing. Then, when you wake up, let us know if your thoughts have changed.

edit: chances are you'll be knocked out by both actually, but either way you'll see why stopping the fight is necessary when a guy goes down and can't protect himself.

I've been hit enough times to know how it feels like. The guys just can't take punches like boxers do. The size of the gloves is really irrelavent. You can get knocked out with 16 oz gloves. Liddell like most of the other MMA guys are out of balance when they get hit, thus the flash KOs. Notice how they are upright with their chins up in the air.

The size of the gloves is really irrelavent. You can get knocked out with 16 oz gloves.


This statement is so bizarre that it's hard to take seriously. There's a big difference between getting hit with 20oz. gloves and 16oz. gloves, let alone tiny 4oz. gloves.

Not only that, but how many boxers can take a muay thai roundhouse to their unprotected ribs. Your hands/arms can't protect everything all the time. See Gonzaga v CroCop. CroCop blocked his midsection, but got kicked the the head. In boxing if you are in danger you can go over and hump the guy until the ref breaks you apart.

There is no difference between MMA (4oz) and Boxing gloves?

Please tell me you are kidding. I've been hit with MMA and 16oz gloves there is a difference.

Yes, both can be used to knock you out but the less padding.....yeah shut up.

I've been hit enough times to know how it feels like. The guys just can't take punches like boxers do. The size of the gloves is really irrelavent. You can get knocked out with 16 oz gloves. Liddell like most of the other MMA guys are out of balance when they get hit, thus the flash KOs. Notice how they are upright with their chins up in the air.

Yes, the chin in the air is what makes the susceptible. If you're implying that boxers are somehow more able to take a punch you're wrong. It's a combination of where you get hit, and how your positioned. The innate ability to just plain take a punch is part of this too, but boxers aren't more equipped with this than mma fighters. MMA fighters simply have to watch for much wider array of attacks than boxers thus leaving their chin open more often. How often does a boxer have to worry about kicks to the legs and body, or a shot for a takedown in addition to punches to the head and body. Also, not all mma fighters are upright with their chins in the air...case in point RAMPAGE. GSP is usually pretty good about keeping his chin tucked too. Basically, you're just lumping the entire MMA community together with a few people. Also, you may have been hit, but how often have you been hit like these fighters?

MMA fighters simply have to watch for much wider array of attacks than boxers thus leaving their chin open more often.

I've never fought MMA (sparred a little for fun) so I'm really just asking a question as oppossed to arguing but why would the option leg kicks and take downs make fighters stick their chins up in the air more? Does it have something to do with the sprawl? Or defense for kicks?

I'm on the fence about this, I think the Liddell/Rampage fight was stopped too early. You can see Lidell acting pissed that is was stopped. But I don't know if there is a good compromise between fighter safety and letting the fighter work out of getting GnP'd from mount.

I'm on the fence about this, I think the Liddell/Rampage fight was stopped too early. You can see Lidell acting pissed that is was stopped. But I don't know if there is a good compromise between fighter safety and letting the fighter work out of getting GnP'd from mount.
Look at him when the ref first jumps on him. Chuck is lost. Until I watched again I thought it was stopped to early.


Not saying some of them haven't been stopped to early but, I think it is smart.

Right now they are fighting the whole human cockfighting stigma. Best way is to not let what happened in boxing's prime go down in MMA.

IMO in the grand scheme its hard to complain (state/federal/governing bodies) when people don't take a million shots to the head.

Rewatch Chuck just after the knock down, and just before Big John jumps in. You'll see he's attempting to protect himself, albeit unsuccessfully, with his hands in the air flailing. Then Rampage lands a pretty clean punch, and Chuck's arms go limp.

They don't get lowered, they absolutely drop - from his fingers to his shoulders they are completely loose, and his head drops back from being slightly raised to on the mat. That is the moment that Big John jumps in - and the moment he should. The instant a fighter stops defending himself, by rule, the fight is over.

If you keep watching Chuck's face, you'll see Chuck start to come to. From the glazed, unfocused look in his eye, its clear that he's been out and still doesn't know where he is. He isn't looking at Jackson or Big John, he's just staring somewhere into the crowd. He then starts asking what happened.

If you are in the middle of caged octagon, the ref is lying over you, and you are staring into space asking what happened, it wasn't stopped too soon.

The other controversial stop involved Din Thomas's win. When he had a clinical arm bar, about to snap the arm.

In short, I'm not sure what the early stoppage questions are about.

I've been hit enough times to know how it feels like. The guys just can't take punches like boxers do. The size of the gloves is really irrelavent. You can get knocked out with 16 oz gloves. Liddell like most of the other MMA guys are out of balance when they get hit, thus the flash KOs. Notice how they are upright with their chins up in the air.
Clearly that must be the case. After all, if a professional boxer like Jens Pulver were in the UFC, it would be impossible for a primary grappler with far less boxing experience to knock him out in 48 seconds. And former WBF, WBO and OPBF title holder Yosuke Nishijima certainly would never get KOed by a brawling MMAist.

What about Thai Boxers and Kickboxers? Tons of them in MMA. Does a Muay Thai fighter getting KOed quickly count as a refutation of your position? Or does it have to be a standard western boxer, who has NEVER been kicked or kneed in the head.

Here's what I think:

1) The gloves make it worse; against an accurate puncher, unconsciousness becomes much more likely. Additionally, the gloves are smaller, and with less padding your blocks will not absorb as much damage, nor do your hands provide as effective a shield as they take up less space. Your opponents hands are also smaller targets to deflect. The reduced surface area of the object applying the force, coupled with less padding and protection, and less defensive coverage from your gloves, means you'll get hit cleanly more often and with less dispersed force. That equals more KOs.

2) MMA allows a fight to end naturally once one fighter displays the ability to render his opponent defenseless, even briefly. A knockdown in boxing often renders a fighter briefly unconscious, and if strikes were allowed against downed opponents, the fight would end immediately. That's not "sporting" in boxing, so they stand the downed fighter back up and give him eight to ten seconds to recover. If MMA did that, the result would be more brain damage.

3) You have more variables to worry about in MMA, and can't display the same level of pure head defense. Sure, you'll try to keep your hands up. But in the clinch, when your body is getting punished by knees (quite a lot more power than body punches), you'll drop your hands faster than Franklin did in his fight with Silva. Sometimes guys fake shots to get your hands down, then throw an overhand right. And sometimes you have to drop or split your hands briefly to appropriately execute a shot, and are vulnerable to quick knees or other counter-tactics.

4) MMA has more to worry about from regulators and political opponents, and so places the safety of its fighters first. In boxing, a guy can die and it's not a huge deal that will change the political landscape. If a fighter dies in a sanctioned MMA match anytime soon, we're going to see some fireworks.

I've never fought MMA (sparred a little for fun) so I'm really just asking a question as oppossed to arguing but why would the option leg kicks and take downs make fighters stick their chins up in the air more? Does it have something to do with the sprawl? Or defense for kicks?

It's more a matter of they're not thinking about it because they've got so much to watch out for so they make the mistake of leaving their chin hanging.

You motherfuckers are the assholes who booed herb dean when he stopped ortiz-shamrock 2. Monday morning refs who aren't in the ring and think that the camera tells the whole story. You really think that people should be pounded beyond the point where their brains are completely shut off. Well if you want to see fighters live to fight another day you would appreciate the refs coming in to protect their safety.

I am not saying that there has never been an early stoppage in the sport, but you implying that a large number of stoppages are early is just plain retarded. Please go buy a felony fights video or cockfighting and stop watching MMA.

Liddell was "angry" because he just got knocked down and knew he was going to lose his belt. In the post fight interviews he had no problem whatsoever with the stoppage. In the heat of battle you're not qualified to judge your own ability to fight back, otherwise there would be no need for TKO's.