1/month! That is very low success percentage for a technique. Have you ever seen the jujitsu 101 videos on youtube? They seem to try to find some principles and set ups for standing joint locks. Their work seems pretty good and realistic for jap jujitsu (of course they know bjj also). Check them out, maybe you can use something from them.
Thanks I will look into it but, part of the reason I only get it about 1/month is that I am not actively looking for it. I would rather get better at my tokui waza and get that where I want it before working on low percentage moves. No In an actual scuffle in college with a frat brother without thinking I put a ura gyaku on him without thinking against a sloppy punch. Almost broke his wrist. but I would never try that against a boxer.

That really reads like you're trying to forcefit a concept onto a spontaneous event that may or may not have come out of your BBT training. This isn't a bad thing if it were a case of "Hey, that kinda reminded me of ichimonji; cool!" but if you are trying to pass it off as groundwork secrets contained in kamae, well...yeah...

It's not being passed off as anything. Hatsumi himself said to learn techniques, principles etc then forget them. In other words, don't sit there and think "awesome, I'm going to do a b c and then d, and that'll have him down!" because real fights aren't like that at all. Of course it was going to be spontaneous then, because I didn't pre-plan any thing. As I said, me and my BJJ brother were just sparring with each other. I was merely using it as an example of what CAN be done.

Thought I would jump in here as well.

Most of my current training involves working with guys outside the Booj, and pressure testing what I have. I am by no means a pure Booj guy,only a shodan and a crappy one at that.

My personal training in Iraq involved working with guys on angling, clinch, takedowns and basic striking, due to limited time and training equipment. I would also work Kihon Happo as well, but more for personal reasons than for combat effectiveness.

Since returning, bag work, groundwork, and sparring, although a lot has been limited due to having knee surgery.

Many here have great and valid points, and I love training in the Booj, although the fantasy players give us a bad name.

Most people would probably be better served for quick combat effectiviness by training Muay Thai and Bjj. I hate to say it but six months of that would put most in a leauge that people who have played "ninja" for 10 years wouldnt be able to handle.

To the people here who train in the Bujinkan, and train hard, I have all the respect in the world for you. It takes a lot to realise that the art needs to be trained that way and not buy into the hype and asian martial arts myth. There are a few guys on here that seem to really have great training regimens, and have a program already that I have been trying to work out myself.

To the guys who havent trained hard. Try it. Against someone who isnt cooperating with you. Have someone put on the gloves, throw on the headgear and see if you can jodan uke, or evade against real attacks with someone actually trying to jab you.

I could go on, as I have great personal feelings about the Bujinkan, and the road it is on and what I feel should be done, but most has been said already and there are others who could probably say it better than me.

Have a great day,

Matt

That really reads like you're trying to forcefit a concept onto a spontaneous event that may or may not have come out of your BBT training. This isn't a bad thing if it were a case of "Hey, that kinda reminded me of ichimonji; cool!" but if you are trying to pass it off as groundwork secrets contained in kamae, well...yeah...

Well said, bujinkan practitioners do that often. When a particular technique and/or concept is proved as bullshit, people start talking about the "feeling" or psychological state that the technique represents rather its practical aspects and if it works, when and how.

not to mention, using kamae as armour .....

Well said, bujinkan practitioners do that often.

Self-justification is something of a human universal, but there does seem to be a lot of it in Martial Arts circles, and the Bujinkan especially.

I think in most free-sparing situations the methods that come out of you are something of a surprise, at least for a long time in your training. I just lack that little brain-glitch that makes some people say "I meant to do that" when I know I didn't.

I'm still interested to know how the ninjas would "avoid playing the grappler's game".

Handguns spring to mind.

I've just started training bujinkan and am quite satisfied with it (ie. having fun, learning new things, getting to know nice people and getting myself fit). I do not have a lot of experience in martial arts training in general and have no real insights on this area yet. Thus this has been a good read for having some perspective on training methods and being able to think critically about our dojo's way of doing things in the future.

I do not know when different martial arts generally start randori or liveness / pressure / resistance training, but with just 3 months into this I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to start doing it yet. I'm afraid of actually hurting uke when doing things with more strength and speed. I guess this means that I'm not still comfortable with the new things I'm learning and thus sholdn't push the envelope (too much, at least). But I definetly want to learn how to use the techniques I'm learning with a resisting opponent. (Why wouldn't you? I can't really figure out that one..) Thanks to this thread I'm realizing the importance of liveness in training even more strongly than before.

Finally, thanks for the thread so far. I realize that bujinkan isn't winning any popularity contests around here so thanks to the folks that actually try to keep this on topic without too much flaming. Why bother kicking a beaten, bleeding and downed opponent when you can teach him? :)

PS. I'm pretty sure that the guys in Hedgehogey's clip would suck at any martial art they'd choose to practice.. There are always those that just don't want to really practice and excel in anything..

I'm going to try to spare you a "RAAAAR KILLLLLL" response by preempting it with one of my own.

Actually, I think it's crucial to be concerned for your partner's safety. They're trusting you with their well-being so that you can both learn. That said, I think you might be surprised just how much you can do without much risk of injury. I would give you some specific pointers, but I've never done Bujinkan (to be honest, I think most of it is pretty silly), so I can't make any suggestions regarding the live practice of particular techniques.

Think of it this way: anything that you cannot regularly practice with a resisting opponent is probably not going to be very effective. Even if it would work in theory, if you haven't internalized it through dynamic practice, you're going to be pretty bad at it. So find a way.

Think of it this way: anything that you cannot regularly practice with a resisting opponent is probably not going to be very effective. Even if it would work in theory, if you haven't internalized it through dynamic practice, you're going to be pretty bad at it. So find a way.

Not true. All you need to do is control the kukan.
If you control the kukan (using the kukan balls) then there is nothing your opponent can do to resist. It doesn't matter if it's on the ground, standing up, unarmed, with weapons, one opponent or multiples - all you have to do is control the kukan.

Not true. All you need to do is control the kukan.
If you control the kukan (using the kukan balls) then there is nothing your opponent can do to resist. It doesn't matter if it's on the ground, standing up, unarmed, with weapons, one opponent or multiples - all you have to do is control the kukan.

What the **** is the kukan?

What the **** is the kukan?


Hatsumi term for Space Manipulation & Distancing. Think term Maai from Judo.

The problem with it is people like Ben Cole started talking about "Kukan Balls" and ways to manipulate opponents without touching them.

I've just started training bujinkan and am quite satisfied with it (ie. having fun, learning new things, getting to know nice people and getting myself fit).
Finally, thanks for the thread so far. I realize that bujinkan isn't winning any popularity

Dude, there are other ways to have fun, learn new things ,get to know people and get fit. Try dancing lessons or tae-bo. Certainly more fun and fitness and more opportunities to get to know people than doing ninjutsu. It suprises me that you did not enlist "self defence" or "learn to kick some ass...if needed of course". Nobody argues that indeed you can find some of the above (fun, fitness etc) in bujinkan but here we are talking about effectiveness and percentage of success of the system's techniques under pressure. Without wanting to sound rude, your own reasons why you are doing it are irrelevant.
The question which concern most people here is: Does it work? If yes, by who, when and how? If does not work, why? Is it the techniques, the training methodology,the people, none of those or all of those?

Hatsumi term for Space Manipulation & Distancing. Think term Maai from Judo.

Thanks, got it. I knew maai but not this term.
I hope he means spatial space and not universe "space". You know, they are ninjas.....they might use kuji kiri to gather galaxian powers from the universe so they can disappear.
I will not be suprised to hear something like this from some ninjers.