Yeah, i'm just marking my territory. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that every (http://youtube.com/watch?v=FYukGs-Iaog) bujinkan (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jcwkMPPffD4) groundfighting (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DkRNvlIM3Z4&mode=related&search=) video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kFAQDIFAu6Y&mode=related&search=) has been godawful.

NEW: INSTRUCTIONAL SERIES FROM DWAYNE "HEDGEHOGEY" MCTAPSNAP

http://www.vontoggenburg.com/Photo/moments/Dog%20pissing.jpg

Yeah, i'm just marking my territory. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that every (http://youtube.com/watch?v=FYukGs-Iaog) bujinkan (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jcwkMPPffD4) groundfighting (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DkRNvlIM3Z4&mode=related&search=) video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kFAQDIFAu6Y&mode=related&search=) has been godawful.

Yeah but to be fair, every bujinkan video has been awful.

Yeah, i'm just marking my territory. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that every bujinkan groundfighting video has been godawful.

The sad thing here is that people in the Bujinkan have been trying to put together a workable grappling program since just after UFC 1 and some 14 years later the only people with anything to show in term of grappling skill all acquired it by training in Judo or BJJ.

The sad thing here is that people in the Bujinkan have been trying to put together a workable grappling program since just after UFC 1 and some 14 years later the only people with anything to show in term of grappling skill all acquired it by training in Judo or BJJ.

I didn't know there was any dedicated effort to do that. I thought there was just the occasional compliant crapple session followed by back pats all round because that proves that "taijutsu works on the ground"

I didn't know there was any dedicated effort to do that. I thought there was just the occasional compliant crapple session followed by back pats all round because that proves that "taijutsu works on the ground"

No, in 1993 or 1994 there were several instructors I was aware of who were drawing from their Judo backgrounds to try and put together a “groundfighting” curriculum since that’s what people wanted to learn and they wanted to hold on to students. All these guys had Dan ranks in Judo and what they came up with was stuff like ichimonji on the ground, wrist locks, and pinches.

To put it simply, the crappling you see taught as Taijutsu ground work these days is actually over 10 years in the making. Sad isn’t it …

This whole "fighting on the ground is the same as fighting standing, only you're horizontal" crap REALLY pisses me off.

No, in 1993 or 1994 there were several instructors I was aware of who were drawing from their Judo backgrounds to try and put together a “groundfighting” curriculum since that’s what people wanted to learn and they wanted to hold on to students. All these guys had Dan ranks in Judo and what they came up with was stuff like ichimonji on the ground, wrist locks, and pinches.

To put it simply, the crappling you see taught as Taijutsu ground work these days is actually over 10 years in the making. Sad isn’t it …

Is that so? ph33r t3h ichimonji mount defence? I've heard of rubbish like ichimonji and jumonji on the ground though.

Is that so? ph33r t3h ichimonji mount defence? I've heard of rubbish like ichimonji and jumonji on the ground though.

OMG that is sad.
Just WTF is ichimonji and jumoji on the ground?
Do students actually buy into this?

Ichimonji:

http://www.bda-ninpo.com/images/kamae_ichi_02.gif

Jumonji:

http://www.bda-ninpo.com/images/kamae_ju_02.gif

What's sad is that they're just as useless standing up.

Do student's believe it? Some do. A lot of bujinkan students believe anything if it comes from the right authority. (hatsumi or shihan)

The guys who go on and on about how jumonji no kamae being vaguely similiar to the "I dream of Jeannie" position your arms are in when you do an armbar proves that the bujinkan has had a complete ground game all along remind me of those theorists back in the late 19th century who pointed out how similiarities in mono, bi or tri syllabic words of widely divergent languages proves that the Basques are actually Celts, or we're all secretly descendents of an Atlantean master race or BJJ came from India, or whatever eurocentric psuedoscience prevailed at the time.

The guys who go on and on about how jumonji no kamae being vaguely similiar to the "I dream of Jeannie" position your arms are in when you do an armbar proves that the bujinkan has had a complete ground

Who says that? Got any links because that makes for good comedy. What's the "I dream of genie" position?

Yeah, and they also sound like people who get pictures of boxers who happen to have one hand low and say "zomg chambered punches!" or a judoka who happens to bend down a bit and "Look horse stance FTW!!111111elevenone"

Ichimonji:

http://www.bda-ninpo.com/images/kamae_ichi_02.gif

Jumonji:

http://www.bda-ninpo.com/images/kamae_ju_02.gif

What's sad is that they're just as useless standing up.

Do student's believe it? Some do. A lot of bujinkan students believe anything if it comes from the right authority. (hatsumi or shihan)

Thanks Virus,
You mean there are actually ninjas out there that advise going into those kind of kamae while on the ground??????
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
It sounds like these people still believe that fighting on the ground is exactly the same as standing, except you're horizontal.

Thanks Virus,
You mean there are actually ninjas out there that advise going into those kind of kamae while on the ground??????
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
It sounds like these people still believe that fighting on the ground is exactly the same as standing, except you're horizontal.

I remember talking with one of my friends who had just got back from Japan and he mentioned that Nagato demonstrated jumanji on the ground. Most people don't really say anything about the ground. They think the ground is somewhere your opponent ends up after a wrist-lock.

I thought that Nagato was a respected judoka...

I have have not heard of the jumonji, ichimonji on teh ground (ground kamaes?)

anywho.. my dojo also does the pressuretraining, and the same type of kata resistance work. we also have,slow sparring, and regular sparring, with or without gloves.... I cant think of anything else right now...:)