Oh, wonderful. A veiled WHY DON'T YOU COME TO THE THROWDOWN IN MELBOURNE, CLIMB THE STAIRS TO THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE SYDNEY OPERA HOUSE, KNOCK ON THE THIRD DOOR ON THE LEFT AND SAY YOU WANT TO MEET THE TIGER kind of one-upmanship. Sorry, i'm in Austin, but you'd do well to remember this:

I would rape you.

Hard.

You're out of line.

That wasn't a threat or a challenge.

Rubber Tanto was expressing frustration with the disembodied, abstract character of internet criticism. It's easier to learn, and to accept advice, with physical proximity (particularly when you've been sparring/rolling - it creates a pedagogical intimacy).

But you know this...

Rear Naked Choke, Tomoe Nage, Osoto Gake .... need I go on.



I won my sparring match against a TKD/BJJer so they have to work a bit at least.



Ok I'll won't look at the obvious origin of your techniques. BJJ is an ancient Brazilian art practiced by the Native Tribes.




Except I don't study at a BJJ dojo.



Bujinkan sucks we all agreed. Except Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is hardly the shinning example. Bujinkan is to Taijutsu as ATA TKD is to Kyokushin Karate.

1)these techniques exist in judo, they are practised, so these are not taijutsu techniques.
I mean have you ever see a judoka use techniques not taught during judo class, that belong to the bujinkan?

2) Glad you won. Which technique did you use? Dont tell me you did a chicken-wing from a side mount that you just call "onikudaki"! Because then it is bjj. Did you K.O by dropping him on his head with an ganseki?

3) I dont give a **** where bjj, bujinkan or judo comes from. The only thing I care for is if whatever techniques I learn in training I can apply them in full contact , full resistance sparring. I dont kiss up to the brazilians and I dont consider them or bjj unbeatable. But the truth is bjj is the best syatem on the ground and compares to nothing on that domain.

4) Other kans also suck. The fact that you dont market the whole thing and sell grades like the bujinkan does not make your stupid techniques work under pressure.

5) Fitz my opinion is not based on what conflicts with my faith as you say. I care about what works. Not what comes from what or origins and other things that will not make me a better fighter.

1)these techniques exist in judo, they are practised, so these are not taijutsu techniques.
I mean have you ever see a judoka use techniques not taught during judo class, that belong to the bujinkan?
So I am arguing Taijutsu and not the bujinkan. I am not part of the bujinkan, they suck.

Second so take a Rear Naked Choke. Its is a Taijutsu technique we practice in class, however, once judo started doing it then BJJ, it stops being a Taijutsu technique? I don't understand. Did BJJ steal it? Can we get it back?





2) Glad you won. Which technique did you use? Dont tell me you did a chicken-wing from a side mount that you just call "onikudaki"! Because then it is bjj. Did you K.O by dropping him on his head with an ganseki?



You watched the video. Choke + Hosaku, you call it a gullotine. BTW the first time I saw a kimura is was called gyaku oni kudaki. Its a Genbukan Kihon Technique which was developed years before UFC 1.




3) I dont give a **** where bjj, bujinkan or judo comes from. The only thing I care for is if whatever techniques I learn in training I can apply them in full contact , full resistance sparring. I dont kiss up to the brazilians and I dont consider them or bjj unbeatable. But the truth is bjj is the best syatem on the ground and compares to nothing on that domain.


I met a Gracie, weirdly you weren't hanging from his nuts. I guess wasn't paying attention.



4) Other kans also suck. The fact that you dont market the whole thing and sell grades like the bujinkan does not make your stupid techniques work under pressure.


The Genbukan school I started at sparred nearly every class and did tournments. Actually that how I got into BJJ, then wasn't a Genbukan school near my college and after sampling a few on campus clubs BJJ was the closest to what I was doing



5) Fitz my opinion is not based on what conflicts with my faith as you say. I care about what works. Not what comes from what or origins and other things that will not make me a better fighter.

Well maybe you should before claiming another style "stole your techniques"

After talking to Tom Kagan is become clear.

I don't do BJJ, if you fighting looks like mine, it turn out you're just doing Taijutsu. Please change your style field accordanly

While this is nowhere near as awful as RT and MS's sparklemotion improvised modern dance routine, it's hardly a vindication of...whatever that vague thing you won't define is, especially if it teaches you to:

-Try to wrench a guillotine with the guy's arm inside

-possibly try to neck crank him by squeezing his head with your forearm at a wrong angle

-Play open guard with your knees together but your feet splayed out, in a way that's just asking for a dump pass

-lose your balance trying to put your hooks in

-hold top turtle with no underhooks, or indeed any control on him whatsoever (which you probably realized as you got put on your butt twice from there) while you ineffectually slap him on the back

-go for an omoplata when it's not appropriate (his arm is bent the wrong way) and again add in the back slaps

-hold north south with a full two feet of space under your hips

You did do one, maybe two technical sweeps, but i'm not here to focus on the positive.

-You also used streaming video to process your fight instead of just putting it on Youtube as someone that loves vaginas would, which meant all I saw was a few minutes of you playing leapfrog, what may or may not have a strike (singular), and some flaccid guard work before you were swallowed by oblivion and BUFFERING

While this is nowhere near as awful as RT and MS's sparklemotion improvised modern dance routine, it's hardly a vindication of...whatever that vague thing you won't define is, especially if it teaches you to:

-Try to wrench a guillotine with the guy's arm inside


I was just it for control, wasn't cranking. I was trying to get him not to hit me while I figured out what do to. Maybe I should of thrown some knees and stood up instead of pulling guard



-possibly try to neck crank him by squeezing his head with your forearm at a wrong angle


Where is the neck crank, I think there was a point where I was holding him tight, so he wouldn't hit me while he was in guard.



-Play open guard with your knees together but your feet splayed out, in a way that's just asking for a dump pass


I agree, that was retarded.



-lose your balance trying to put your hooks in

-hold top turtle with no underhooks, or indeed any control on him whatsoever (which you probably realized as you got put on your butt twice from there) while you ineffectually slap him on the back



I was go focus on ending it there with a choke, I ignored what I should of done and work on getting my hooks in



-go for an omoplata when it's not appropriate (his arm is bent the wrong way) and again add in the back slaps


Only learned to start applying omoplata in the last year or so. I was trying to get him to roll over, which I did succeed at. That was not an omoplata attempt.



-hold north south with a full two feet of space under your hips



Yeah I should of been tighter, I but I did pull off the choke so it worked out




You did do one, maybe two technical sweeps, but i'm not here to focus on the positive.


No one expects you to. I am not exactly proud of this vid, but it the only one I can find at the moment and it better than posting nothing.

-You also used streaming video to process your fight instead of just putting it on Youtube as someone that loves vaginas would, which meant all I saw was a few minutes of you playing leapfrog, what may or may not have a strike (singular), and some flaccid guard work before you were swallowed by oblivion and BUFFERING


Errr. save as?


I'll upload it to youtube later if i get bored.

I've done chokes in bujinkan but they were all done from a standing position, or against a sitting opponent with your knee in his back. Not from back mount with hooks in, which is the most effective way to apply the choke.

I was just it for control, wasn't cranking. I was trying to get him not to hit me while I figured out what do to. Maybe I should of thrown some knees and stood up instead of pulling guard

His hand was to the mat, his posture completely broken. THAT was the time to start climbing your legs up, pulling your foot if you need to, and omoplataing or triangling.




Where is the neck crank, I think there was a point where I was holding him tight, so he wouldn't hit me while he was in guard.

That's why I said possibly. I don't reccomend that way to hold his head down, but I won't dwell on it. We have bigger pokemon to catch here.



I agree, that was retarded.



I was go focus on ending it there with a choke, I ignored what I should of done and work on getting my hooks in

Ok, that's getting somewhere. Now think: Why weren't these bad habits caught early on? Could it be my teacher has insufficiently studied the guardwork applications of the ryu scrolls? Or maybe (he thought) BJJ's not just a shinobi no mono...maybe BJJ (he thought) means a little bit mo'....



Only learned to start applying omoplata in the last year or so. I was trying to get him to roll over, which I did succeed at. That was not an omoplata attempt.

And you've been studying however many years at your tradition jujutsu school and have just started to learn a sub which, while not the first sub you learn, is something you pretty much need to know if you don't want to be a white belt forever in BJJ?



Yeah I should of been tighter, I but I did pull off the choke so it worked out

You lost the position, and you lost it because you left a mile wide gap and had no upper body grip that would prevent him from going belly down. That's the point. Wether or not you get a sub later on is irrelevant.

Actually, this response goes into why competition produces more humble fighters. If I gave my instructor the same response plasma just gave me, he'd probably send me to do several humiliating and exhausting wrestling rounds with the crazy iranian olympian who runs our takedown classes and looks like he just stepped off the Island of Dr Moreau.

When you're a competitor, you can't afford to say "Oh, yeah, I tapped Buttscoot McGillicuddy with a gotarded arm triangle after ten minutes of struggle." There's dudes lining up around the block at the next tournament, hoping to grab their fifteen minutes by consecutively raping you. If you don't honestly evaluate every aspect of your game, and know what you actually need to improve in, you're going the way of Betamax.



No one expects you to. I am not exactly proud of this vid, but it the only one I can find at the moment and it better than posting nothing.

You're right, it is better than nothing. It's certainly worse, however, than a video which demonstrates more than a cursory and shallow knowledge of positioning.

Look Plasma, i'm not trying to rip open your self esteem and send a stream of steaming piss into the wound. But your bad habits would be quickly corrected if you went to a real BJJ school once or twice a week.

As I said this video is almost 2 years old. At this point I have correcting ALOT of my bad habits. This was a combination of me being stupid (not my instructors fault, he would smack me for some of the stupid **** I did in the vid), me being not used to people being aloud to strike in my guard (I paniced a bit, I was very new to the MMA rule set at that point, I did stirking only and grappling only).

Its mainly excuses , I know. Mainly I wasn't comfortable in the MMA ruleset then and it showed. I been working in the last 2 years to correct on of mistakes in that video.

My JJJ instructor is also a 4th dan in Judo, at that point we were really working the Judo standup because my standup REALLY sucked. As you can see I got then the takdown very quickly, standup doesn't suck so much anymore. In the last year, we started fixing my groundwork.

I wonder if Bujinkan ground stuff is incomplete *because*, AFAIK, Hatsumi and all of the Shihan all have Judo ranking. It never seems like they're looking for ground techniques. It's only they guys who concentrated on Bujinkan exclusively. I met a lot of older members who basically has the same background and saw the taijutsu as "gravy" that went on top of their base. I trained with the guy who was the highest ranked in Canada and IIRC, he was actually up-ranked because he had a background in judo/jujutsu.

I think the BJJihad needs to chill.

Approaching three years in, I've never been shown an omoplata in judo. I've tapped out dan grades with omoplatas on a number of occasions, sometimes to their complete bafflement.

Some of the finer details get lost when a system doesn't focus wholly on one range. BJJ takedowns are sometimes pretty much in the same boat as judo groundfighting. I don't think there's anything much constructive to be gleaned from criticising Plasma's mostly functional groundfighting on the grounds that it would have been better if he'd cross-trained BJJ; this may be true, but we're moving towards quibbling here.

On the other hand, RubberTanto's video was dire by most standards. Judo groundfighting is sometimes shitty, but I'd have to look hard to find a 6-month judo low belt who'd underperform what we saw on the ground there, and 6 months of judo would make for hugely better standup grappling. I know a 4-month BJJ white belt who'd dominate both of them hard on the ground. I don't know how long you've been training, RubberTanto, but I've this horrid suspicion that you're not getting good instruction in any of the ranges I saw you in.

Also, I think this is coming back to something Boyd said a while ago: taking a school from dead training to alive training doesn't magically make it a good school. If the instructors weren't taught in an alive fashion, they probably don't actually have much useful to impart and shouldn't be teaching.

Plasma, for how long had you been training grappling at the time that video was taken?

Plasma, for how long had you been training grappling at the time that video was taken?


Few years ( at BJJ and JJJ schools). However, I got a bit over anxious and sloppy do to being in a new ruleset (MMA). I even knew then it was sloppy.

I really need a better video.

"Taking a school from dead training to alive training doesn't magically make it a good school."

- Sophist.

Quoted for t3h c0rrect. A factor to consider is how systematic the aliveness is with the art. Turning a dead school into an alive one is definitely an improvement, but there's more to aliveness than doing kata bumkai then rolling around on the ground like schoolboys.