There is chin-na out there that is not done standing up as well. The whole "what works standing up works on the ground" argument isn't really taking everything into account. When you are on the ground you are much closer to the opponent and without having to use your legs to support you many things can be done with the legs to lock up an opponent. I should add that I realize these things are not trained a whole lot in any schools that we hear about much.
You need to explain this because it sounds really bad. Yes, there are things that can be done to lock up the opponent. No, I've never seen viable (non-compliant) techniques demoed that weren't some type of bastardized antigrappling.

Most chinese ground work consists of strikes and techniques to get back up.

So, please, provide some examples.

No, Chinese wrestling doesn't count because, it was frowned upon for many years until recently.

You need to explain this because it sounds really bad. Yes, there are things that can be done to lock up the opponent. No, I've never seen viable (non-compliant) techniques demoed that weren't some type of bastardized antigrappling.

Most chinese ground work consists of strikes and techniques to get back up.

So, please, provide some examples.

No, Chinese wrestling doesn't count because, it was frowned upon for many years until recently.


I realize that most of cma ground work is dedicated to getting back up, but there are joint manipulations that are done on the ground with the legs that I have seen that are pretty good. The only thing that I can point to in proof is some old book I have called "The Secret Arts of Chinese Leg Manoeuvres In Pictures". But even in there they only show a few sweeps and locks that are done from the ground. They demonstrate a few sweeps with joint breaks using the legs.

I am not defending anyone's "anti-grapple" bullshit either.

From what I have heard, martial arts in general used to be looked down upon in China as a cheap labor skill or something. Similar to how we treat construction workers as dumb oafs instead of skilled tradesmen.

I realize that most of cma ground work is dedicated to getting back up, but there are joint manipulations that are done on the ground with the legs that I have seen that are pretty good. The only thing that I can point to in proof is some old book I have called "The Secret Arts of Chinese Leg Manoeuvres In Pictures". But even in there they only show a few sweeps and locks that are done from the ground. They demonstrate a few sweeps with joint breaks using the legs..Okay, what is your experience with these locks and what style?
I think I have that book, I'll have to dig it out. If it is the one I think it realy doesn't support your argument.

Don't think that I am any expert or anything, but from what I have seen there is a bit of groundfighting in cma... not much, not practiced enough in modern cma's, not nearly as extensive as BJJ, but the stuff is out there.

I do Mantis Kung Fu. I have had exposure to mostly Seven Star, Wah Lum, and Hung Gar. I wish I could say that I have more experience with using the stuff... but alas I am very lacking in the experience.

Its not very common to see groundfighting in CMA. My teacher at this time is the only person I've met that knows groundfighting in CMA. Some of it is mixed in with the Mongolian groundfighting but I have't asked which techniques are CMA. I know that some of the leg techniques are from a kung-fu style. Also some gnp strikes from the mount that are from a monkey style.

There is one style that has techniques and drills that apply to both standing up and on the ground. Sticky hands drills are setup to pull off locks. One technique looks like an overhook applied to the elbow works well standing up, for initiating a takedown, and when applied from the mount.

A kung-fu style that has either Tibetan or Chinese origins has takedowns and groundfighting. The groundfighting is nasty where an arm is grabbed while in one mount position and switched to another mount position (ie side mount to N-S). There is some rolling and pouncing as well. All of the techniques I've seen are from mount positions only. What is interesting is that fundamental principles used standing up are applied on the ground.

Those were just examples of CMA styles that have groundfighting. I've also been able to apply some techniques from standup kung-fu styles on the ground. So I do think that standup techniques can be applied on the ground but you have to be comfortable working in the positions and have specific training in a groundfighting style to pull the techniques off. A person with no groundfighting experience/training that tries to apply standup stuff on the ground is SOL.