So, now that black tony's derail has been succesful, you fuckers wanna get back to the point?

buttsecs??

So, now that black tony's derail has been succesful, you fuckers wanna get back to the point?


I forgot what was the point , oh yeah one guy bad mouthing another guy :deadhorse

Ok, Ill take my time, and list what I think to be the problem.

Do I start with my credintials and personal history in Kempo-Goju?

Do I start with my exodus story?

How about....yes.

Well, for those who are wondering what my connection is to Kempo-Goju karate, or for those who never heard of the style, I'll give a little introduction to the system, and my expierience in it.

Kempo-Goju karate is a hybrid system of karate based on two styles of karate, Kempo karate( closely tied to Mas Oyama Kyokushin Karate) and Goju ryu( from the Gogen Yamaguchi lineage).

The founder of this system is Charles Warren. He earned the rank of black belt in the above mentioned styles while in the Air force.

Mr. Warren started teaching both styles of karate in Wisconsin, while he was a Wisconsin State Trooper. He began to merge what he thought to be most practicle from both systems. My instructor, Mr. Muhammad Sabir, was one of the first black belts in Mr. Warren's system.

I first started my study of Martail arts at The Fighting Arts Academy loctaed at 60th and W. North ave. in Milwaukee, WI. under Ben DeLeon and Tom Hall, back in 1978.

When the club folded, Mr. Hall advised my Dad that I should train at Mr. Sabir's Dojo located at 46th and W. North ave. The style I was taught and exposed to at Sabir's Dojo, and other Kempo-Goju Dojo's are consistant with the following description.

Kempo-Goju karate is a primarly stand up striking style. the training is drilling basics in a formation, pre-arranged self defense sets, and point style/ continuios style of fighting, Grappling is limited to a few trips and sweeps, with no ground fighting, and of course Kata.

I hold a Nidan(2nd degree black belt) from Mr. Sabir. I think Mr. Sabir's approach to karate is excellent.

I think Kempo-Goju karate has a pretty decent stand up game, most of the Black belts are reasonably competent in striking. The main weakness in the system , in my opinion, is a lack of a serious Grappling program in the training syllabus in the clinch and ground fighting. I also think that they should train more towards Full contact kickboxing or MMA style tournaments. Tom Hall and Jay Wilson(both Kempo- Goju black belts) have competed with some success in kickboxing in the PKA.

I have been competing in Judo and Pankration(amatuer style MMA) since 2003, to round out my fighting ability, and found that Kempo-Goju gave me a good base for some of the striking, but was found wanting in some of the areas that Judo filled in.

I think the turning point in my exodus from Kempo-Goju, is because of a man named Matt Thorton, and the teachings of his Straight Blast Gym.

I embraced his entire Model of training, and It was in direct conflict with what I was doing, so a tension had developed.

Please be patient, as I try to type in a clear and understandable way.

o.k. so far?

I think I was fortunate to train at The Community Martail Arts and fitness Center that was located at N 46th and W. North Ave., headed by Sensei Muhammad Sabir, back in the early 80's.

At that place and time, that Dojo had a huge children's class and adult class that focused on good , hard , sparring. Yeah, we did some Kata's, and one-steps, but almost 80% was sparring, and classes were 3 times a day, 5 days a week!

The volume of sparring, coupled with the depth of sparring partners I had at Sensei Sabir's Dojo was an incredable expierence.

Back then, Saturday classes were intense! Any of the old-timers could tell you the class was a 2 hour sparring marathon, broken up with a class runs through Washington park, extreme exercises, followed by more sparring.

I have many happy memories of the Dojo, our Demos we put on at Summerfest, the deep conversations after class, the support and coaching of the Parents. It was a BIG family back then.

This is just a bit of detail of my main Kempo-goju school, do I need to post my black belt certificates?

are my post o.k., so far?

Good so far.

Well, for those who are wondering what my connection is to Kempo-Goju karate, or for those who never heard of the style, I'll give a little introduction to the system, and my expierience in it.

Kempo-Goju karate is a hybrid system of karate based on two styles of karate, Kempo karate( closely tied to Mas Oyama Kyokushin Karate) and Goju ryu( from the Gogen Yamaguchi lineage).

The founder of this system is Charles Warren. He earned the rank of black belt in the above mentioned styles while in the Air force.

Mr. Warren started teaching both styles of karate in Wisconsin, while he was a Wisconsin State Trooper. He began to merge what he thought to be most practicle from both systems. My instructor, Mr. Muhammad Sabir, was one of the first black belts in Mr. Warren's system.

I first started my study of Martail arts at The Fighting Arts Academy loctaed at 60th and W. North ave. in Milwaukee, WI. under Ben DeLeon and Tom Hall, back in 1978.

When the club folded, Mr. Hall advised my Dad that I should train at Mr. Sabir's Dojo located at 46th and W. North ave. The style I was taught and exposed to at Sabir's Dojo, and other Kempo-Goju Dojo's are consistant with the following description.

Kempo-Goju karate is a primarly stand up striking style. the training is drilling basics in a formation, pre-arranged self defense sets, and point style/ continuios style of fighting, Grappling is limited to a few trips and sweeps, with no ground fighting, and of course Kata.

I hold a Nidan(2nd degree black belt) from Mr. Sabir. I think Mr. Sabir's approach to karate is excellent.

I think Kempo-Goju karate has a pretty decent stand up game, most of the Black belts are reasonably competent in striking. The main weakness in the system , in my opinion, is a lack of a serious Grappling program in the training syllabus in the clinch and ground fighting. I also think that they should train more towards Full contact kickboxing or MMA style tournaments. Tom Hall and Jay Wilson(both Kempo- Goju black belts) have competed with some success in kickboxing in the PKA.

I have been competing in Judo and Pankration(amatuer style MMA) since 2003, to round out my fighting ability, and found that Kempo-Goju gave me a good base for some of the striking, but was found wanting in some of the areas that Judo filled in.

I think the turning point in my exodus from Kempo-Goju, is because of a man named Matt Thorton, and the teachings of his Straight Blast Gym.

I embraced his entire Model of training, and It was in direct conflict with what I was doing, so a tension had developed.


Hey Mil

one brother officer to another ,

Every style has its good points and its limitations , Im now a Shotokan dude after going back and forth since the 70s first with Shotokan then switching to Taekwondo and now full circle to Shotokan.The point being Im sure your style is similiar to Shotokan its a good striking stand up style . But it will lack in the ground game .

Shotokan like Goju are based from the old Style Okinawan Te and as if what I read is true was mainly used by Bodyguards to the Okinanawan kings. The reason that syles like Shotokan and Goju arent great in grappling is because they couldnt afford to roll on the ground because more often than not they were faced with multiple attackers thus the one punch one kill simply because unlike Chuan fa which utilized multiple strikes to dispatch an opponent. The Okinawans used one strike to dispatch their opponents because they were facing many at the same time.

Anyway I think its important like you are doing to cross train in a style that specializes in what the other doesnt.

I think after awhile I may either do Judo or JJJ or BJJ .OSU

The reason that syles like Shotokan and Goju arent great in grappling is because they couldnt afford to roll on the ground because more often than not they were faced with multiple attackers thus the one punch one kill simply because unlike Chuan fa which utilized multiple strikes to dispatch an opponent. The Okinawans used one strike to dispatch their opponents because they were facing many at the same time.




I have to disagree on a few points.

Old style Goju has a fair amount of stand up grappling techniques and I find it works well with taking it to the ground for a finish

Also in Funakoshi's autobiography he talks glowingly about Okinawan wrestling and loving to compete in it as a youth. Okinawan wrestling from what he describes in it was a lot like submission grappling and very popular.

Why he didn't include it in his curriculum when he developed Karate-Do is more cultural than martial.

Well, the company line back then, and is still to this day, is a Kempo- Goju Black Belt could handle ANY wrestler, no matter what. and as a teen-age Black Belt I drank the company Kool-aid.

Enter my fight with a varsiety wrestler in high-school.

I was doing Great. landed some solid shots. And then the Clinch happened, followed by a quick and painful lesson on ground control. I couldnt get the deadly bites and pokes in, because I was tied up.

And he had better delivery system , I was no Chump, my stand up was good, but My Kempo-goju training had not prepared me to stuff double legs, or how to escape pins, and control the ground.

We never commited to having real grappling, you were chastised for wrestling in sparring class.

be patient I have to hunt and peck.

my spelling is really bad, but i will try my best.

and if you have any questions about my training in Kempo-goju ,just ask.

I have to disagree on a few points.

Old style Goju has a fair amount of stand up grappling techniques and I find it works well with taking it to the ground for a finish

Also in Funakoshi's autobiography he talks glowingly about Okinawan wrestling and loving to compete in it as a youth. Okinawan wrestling from what he describes in it was a lot like submission grappling and very popular.

Why he didn't include it in his curriculum when he developed Karate-Do is more cultural than martial.


Read the book Shotokan's secret by Bruce Clayton where the author states that while each of the masters obviously were all cross trained martial artists , Okinawa Te , Bujitsu .

They purposefully avoided grappling simply because they would be kicked to death by their opponents compadres. If you think about the theory it makes sense. you can grapple in a one on one but if you facing multiple adversaries you cant afford to wrestle around on the ground dealing with one of them while the others are attacking you .