See, you are evading and yet contradicting yourself all the time.

You say you have good technique (in TKD) and you are a good fighter but yet you are not a good TKD fighter, how does that work?
I would call my self mediocre WTF fighter at best, even more at the bottom, yet I can hold my self, not only in WTF TKD but in MT/KB, JJJ,Karate, even in Judo, sparring-training- tournaments. I am not top notch but it is more then enough to hold my self in a fight under those rule sets.

You say tkd is good but not at the top. Therefore there are people who are better fighters than the good tkd fighters, and yet you say you were good fighter but not a good tkd fighter. So you are better but yet not better... see where I am going with this?

Same for the WTF stance, people fucking adapt, simple as that, if you can't it is just a sign that you either ignorant or limited, take your pick.

Another point is: axe kick(are you talking aboliki or neryo chagi and when you are talking neryo are you talking traditional or competition, are you talking straigt or inside out/ outside in?) and roundhouse (are you talking dolyo or paldung?) in different variations and some hook kicks( simple pande, pande dolyo, timen pande dolyo?). You missed to mention front and side kicks those are used too... which then are all kick you can throw right? Or do you know any more? I don't.
So how is this limited?
(And to cut off your hand argument before you start it. I have seen people make them work under WTF rule set, if you can't isn't that a sign that you are not that good as you might think?)

I know what WTF/Olympic TKD looks like, I fought it for years so thank you, I think I am good, no youtube needed.

These are a few problems I have with what you write. You are inconsistent and contradict yourself (see above) you fail to argue your point on a logic basis.


No im not being inconsistent , TKD is a very good art , No art is the best ,

look arguing with you is pointless , Most TKD players are extremely good kickers crappy punchers .Even Errant commented hands held too high and not bouncing enough .

The major reason I wasnt a great WTF type fighter , I grew up in the golden days of Karate tournaments , The Chuck Norris , Bill wallace era, before they went to the PKA .
I was a much better Shotokan fighter because I tended to be a good counter fighter and tended to jam my opponents. I took TKD because I wanted to expand my kicking abilities and by the time i got rank in TKD I was already in my mid 30s .

That said my techniques were good , but not as Olympic style TKD fighter .

Its the same not every one is going to be able to throw a 90 plus MPH fastball but you can be effective throwing mid 80s curves.

I think ITF and Tang Soo Doo more of my personal style. I think if I had started at younger age WTF TKD I probably would have been better at that type of sparring , I never said I was bad at it , but I wasnt going to win too many grand Championships in olympic style .

And what gets me is all I originally posted that neither of the two videos appeared to be WTF . So what caused you to lose your mind and go off.

I enjoyed my training in TKD , I like alot of it but most WTF TKD dojangs are very committed to the sports angle more so than the self defense . Most schools will throw in some smidgeons of "hapkido".
But I never knocked TKD I gave my opinion . And What Ive seen of ITF I like.
But ITF is hard to find where I am.

Most TKD players are extremely good kickers crappy punchers .Even Errant commented hands held too high and not bouncing enough .

I'm pretty sure Errant was joking. A stereotypical WTF TKDer jumps around and keeps his hands down, so he was joking by saying that f4nf4n wasn't a TKDer because he wasn't stereotypical.

I'm pretty sure Errant was joking. A stereotypical WTF TKDer jumps around and keeps his hands down, so he was joking by saying that f4nf4n wasn't a TKDer because he wasn't stereotypical.

Its not a sterotype its largely true. I wasnt knocking F4, I was making a comment that neither of the videos shown the fighters appeared to be fighting WTF style .Even the protective gear unless they changed it from the white didnt appear official.:blob5:

For errants comment, he was ironic...


For the punching, I only can talk about my training in 5 different TKD schools and a few other schools teaching stand up arts, such as JJJ AK Hapkido etc.
It deppends, on the trainer and the goal of your training. If you are training for the olympics or olympic style competition you will only come across a few punches.
Though I would say my punches are ok, I am no way a boxer but I have the basics down. Why? Because my trainers besides being TKD BB were also good kick boxers and former boxing champions. Hence they stressed the importance of proper striking.
And some schools were almost putting no emphasis on striking at all. I don't know what that says about WTF and striking. I do know what it says about the quality of the training though.
ITF is pretty big on striking as far as I know. What does that say about TKD and striking in general?
The JJJ had some of the worst stand up I have seen, crappy kicks, crappy punches, lousy stances all the way. I say I have learned more about striking in any of the TKD schools I have been, does that say anything about TKD or JJJ or about the schools you have been?


And sorry I don't get baseball references, I have only a limited understanding of that sport, very limited. Not an American you know?

What videos are you talking about, in the other thread? Or the one in this thread?

And for most schools being committed to sport rather than self defence.
I tell you, most schools you will find, what ever the style is, Kenpo,TKD,Wushu,KungFu what ever. They are all limited and will most definitely will not tell you how to defend yourself.
The best self defence that I have been taught was by people who cross train and work in Law enforcement or as bouncers/bodyguards, regardless of their "initial" style. When you find them, go to their seminars or even better train with them, spar with them.

For errants comment, he was ironic...


For the punching, I only can talk about my training in 5 different TKD schools and a few other schools teaching stand up arts, such as JJJ AK Hapkido etc.
It deppends, on the trainer and the goal of your training. If you are training for the olympics or olympic style competition you will only come across a few punches.
Though I would say my punches are ok, I am no way a boxer but I have the basics down. Why? Because my trainers besides being TKD BB were also good kick boxers and former boxing champions. Hence they stressed the importance of proper striking.
And some schools were almost putting no emphasis on striking at all. I don't know what that says about WTF and striking. I do know what it says about the quality of the training though.
ITF is pretty big on striking as far as I know. What does that say about TKD and striking in general?
The JJJ had some of the worst stand up I have seen, crappy kicks, crappy punches, lousy stances all the way. I say I have learned more about striking in any of the TKD schools I have been, does that say anything about TKD or JJJ or about the schools you have been?


And sorry I don't get baseball references, I have only a limited understanding of that sport, very limited. Not an American you know?

What videos are you talking about, in the other thread? Or the one in this thread?

And for most schools being committed to sport rather than self defence.
I tell you, most schools you will find, what ever the style is, Kenpo,TKD,Wushu,KungFu what ever. They are all limited and will most definitely will not tell you how to defend yourself.
The best self defence that I have been taught was by people who cross train and work in Law enforcement or as bouncers/bodyguards, regardless of their "initial" style. When you find them, go to their seminars or even better train with them, spar with them.


The videos in this thread .

Where are you from ?Im in USA NY.

I hope you didn't take me criticizing you , I was only saying that WTF TKD is a very distinctive style that is easily recognizable .

I only see one video in this thread and this is "Tae" sparring under what I would say are Kickboxing/K1 rules, this was what I was referring to on the bouncing and stuff.
The other video I was referring to was one in the video section that was called "tkd without hands down" or something like that.

I am from Germany and hopefully be back in NY end of this year (hence the NY cap with the Yankee stadium).

I don't mind people criticizing me, as long as they have a basis and argue their point on this said basis, it will lead to me learning something and getting better.
What I can't stand is over exaggeration and generalizations (Yes I am guilty of the same stuff when I say something is NOT TKD but I say this more in a "this is no MA at all" way.) And I really can't stand it when people talk about techniques in general and kicking in particular, without a good explanation. Because this is what I "know". I can kick and I could, if I was allowed, teach how to kick. I can explain the stuff and back it up with reason/physics/body mechanics/experience. Same for stand up self defence. I have trained the good stuff and I have wasted time training the wrong stuff and I can explain why the wrong stuff is wrong and does not work.
This is what I expect, if you argue saying something does not work or works, point out why, just saying "I say so" does not cut if for me.

Yankees suck.

This argument sucks.

But the cap is damn cool :P

Yankees suck.

This argument sucks.

yankees rule .:car25:

For errants comment, he was ironic...

Seriously, that never happens.

*splaps Vieux Normand*

*splaps Vieux Normand*

Hmmm...better than caffeine. Danke.

You are welcome ... and I suck at spelling... :sad11:

You are welcome ... and I suck at spelling... :sad11:
You spell english better than 60% of the english speaking youtube community, so don't feel so bad :tongue3:

As much as this eases my pain, I tend to not compare myself with the bottom but rather with the top. I like to have high standards and fail them miserably.




Wait only 60%? Youtube is full of retards, this is like saying I am one of them :qright6:

As much as this eases my pain, I tend to not compare myself with the bottom but rather with the top. I like to have high standards and fail them miserably.




Wait only 60%? Youtube is full of retards, this is like saying I am one of them :qright6:
Hey, there are retards who actually can spell... Well, you're not part of the 80% of the youtube community that's retarded, and you spell better than 60% of the english speaking youtube community. Is that better :-\ ?