Well everything is going down I guess.

Never fight obvious stupidity with feigned stupidity. Lesson learned.

Huh, damn, this thread is bursting my TKD bubble. In regards to Choi, it states on the ITF site that:

"In 1937, Choi was sent to Japan to further his education. Shortly before leaving, however, the youth had the misfortune to engage in a rather heated argument with a massive professional wrestler who promised to literally tear the youth limb from limb at their next encounter. This threat seemed to give a new impetus to young Choi's training in the martial arts.

I'm surprised they didn't mention his time as a Japanese POW where he developed his martial arts training there. There is way too much bullshit about his background.


In Kyoto, Choi met a fellow Korean, Mr. Him, who was engaged in teaching the Japanese martial art, Karate. With two years of concentrated training, Choi attained the rank of first degree black belt. These techniques, together with Taek Kyon (foot techniques), were the forerunners of modern Taekwon-Do

There followed a period of both mental and physical training, preparatory school, high school, and finally the University in Tokyo. During this time, training and experimentation in his new fighting techniques were intensified until, with attainment of his second degree black belt, he began teaching at a YMCA in Tokyo, Japan. "

So damn, what yer telling me is that this is bullshit? That would be a shame. I havn't studied Choi beyond what I've learned from TKD so, im all disappointed now.


I believe this is partly true. While in Japan studying, he did begin his training in Shotokan, however, that is where the truth stops and the BS begins. As I mentioned he only achieved a brown belt level during his tiem there. The only way he could have become a General was to be well educated. If he was well educated, he was not studying intensely in the martial arts. As for his merging of Taekkyon with Karate to make TKD. This is just simply not true. TKD was developed as a group effort of all the different Kwan leaders. It was never a one man effort like Choi kool-aide drinkers would like you to believe. Choi's biggest accomplishment of getting TKD established in the military was simply becuase he was good friends with the President of Korea at that time. Sorry to burst and preconceptions of him, but he was just a savvy man who embellished is martial art resume a bit.

I would love to see it , but am skeptical, I can't see the ITF giving up their Chunji patterns for the newer and easier Taeguks.

But if it could happen. TKD would rock.

Nor would they have to give them up. They would just have to add the Taeguk patterns to their curriculm is all. Contrary to popular belief, and TKD school can follow their own path. In order to be KKW certified, they simply must meet the minimum requirements. So if an MMA school wants to be KKW certified, they just have to add that curriculum to what they do already. (I know...far fetched example, but an example none the less)

What the hell happened?!?

I used to have smart people contributing to my forum!!!

Sorry brother, I have been out of the loop doing MA political bs stuff.

I didn't think WTF uses their hands at all actually :cachas:

Well, my boxing may suck but I wouldn't say that I don't use my hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]wdIMTzgo-rY

I' m the fat guy in the white shirt.

That wasn't TKD. You didn't hop enough and your hands were far too high up.

Assuming you are the one with the BS pants
I would say:
- work on your distance
- smooth and swift on your feet, more bouncing, less MT marching
- more flexible in your hips and cut the front side kick unless you do it right + add some speed and power
- don't drop your guard when you kick
- try to set up your attacks better and work some combos
- elbows in
- when you strike, move in, do your combo and move out, don't stay within the distance

Just a quick summary from what stands out.

Assuming you are the one with the BS pants
I would say:
- work on your distance
- smooth and swift on your feet, more bouncing, less MT marching
- more flexible in your hips and cut the front side kick unless you do it right + add some speed and power
- don't drop your guard when you kick
- try to set up your attacks better and work some combos
- elbows in
- when you strike, move in, do your combo and move out, don't stay within the distance

Just a quick summary from what stands out.

First, 108, big hugs and kisses for that. I'd pluss rep you, but apparently I need to do some push ups first.

f4fn4n, thanks for the feedback. My only defense to your righteous crtitisism, for the most part, is that I really don't do much stand up anymore since I started focusing on GJJ. That said, I would add that I also need to work on my angles and my follow up once I land a good shot (I think this last works in with your "needs work on combos" comment) - I'm looking way too much like a point sparrer. Also, I need to work on my head movement in the pocket more. As for the "elbows in criticism," I was actually raising my elbows up and out, especially on the rear arm, on purpose to try and bait the round kick in order to set up the back kick against the rear leg round kick or the pado-ch'agi against the lead leg round kick, but he didn't bite.

What the hell happened?!?

I used to have smart people contributing to my forum!!!
Was that posted because I haven't posted yet? :5kidding:

Seriously tho; I'm not sure if I'm for or against the ITF and WTF merging.
Sure, it'll be nice to have ITF people in the olympics, but I'm sure that when the merger is over, I'll be glad I'm no longer training TKD. I predict that the first major problem will be Choi Hong Hi. I bet his most dedicated nutriders will make more organizations because they'll think WTF will taint the holy ITF. And those dedicated nutriders who don't leave will frequently try to force the XTF (X Taekwondo Federation...I have no idea what it'll be called now) president to acknowledge Choi as their saviour, and will then make an enemy of all the kwans.

Also I predict that the amount of forms will rise. If there's gonna be a shared curicullum, both sides are gonna insist on their forms being used, and then they'll end up with more forms... And if there's a shared curicullum, most instructors are gonna be thrown into some lame weekend course, get a weak grasp on some technique, and has to teach them to their students who will probably do them worse than the instructors....



BTW; What was ex-president Un-yong Kim's scandal?

Well, my boxing may suck but I wouldn't say that I don't use my hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]wdIMTzgo-rY

I' m the fat guy in the white shirt.


Do you do WTF TKD ?

If so and what rank ?

Im only asking because you dont move like a WTF TKD.

Ill say this for some of them are deadly kickers who have great footwork .

I think WTF TKD has some good points but alot of bad points such as the dropping of the hands , I said Ive seen some really good WTF TKD players that had sublime footwork and would drop you with an axe kick.

I had the fortune to study with a coach of the olympic team. That said I was never a good TKD player too big too slow and short legs.

IMHO the ideal TKD player is lean fast long legs

:psyduck:
Please stop talking out of your ass.

Im only asking because you dont move like a WTF TKD.

What the **** is that supposed to mean? I am training WTF but when I fight different rules, I fucking addapt and take for example a more MT stance, you not going to see me bouncing in a WTF stance when there are fucking leg kicks allowed, this is stupid.



I think WTF TKD has some good points but alot of bad points such as the dropping of the hands , I said Ive seen some really good WTF TKD players that had sublime footwork and would drop you with an axe kick.
And the dropping of the hands has been discussed over and over, stop it would you? If you want some input, read the Video thread you necrod where you were talking about doboks as an idiction of WTF or ITF (boy that **** hurt)


I had the fortune to study with a coach of the olympic team. That said I was never a good TKD player too big too slow and short legs. Ah yeah sure, too big but short legs? And too slow?
I tell you something, especially in the heavyweight devision there are some guys that are fucking blocks, but they rule.
And sure there is a limitation to your speed but that is 80-90% technique and the rest is genetics and timing.

PS: I trained with coaches of the olympic team too and also of the Poomse team and others, is that an indicator for something?
Might be but in general NO, nobody cares unless you prove that you know something, what you are trying to avoid by any means.


IMHO the ideal TKD player is lean fast long legs That is the ideal for every
stand up, not only TKD...

So please, stop talking Bullshit, thank you.

:psyduck:
Please stop talking out of your ass.
What the **** is that supposed to mean? I am training WTF but when I fight different rules, I fucking addapt and take for example a more MT stance, you not going to see me bouncing in a WTF stance when there are fucking leg kicks allowed, this is stupid.

And the dropping of the hands has been discussed over and over, stop it would you? If you want some input, read the Video thread you necrod where you were talking about doboks as an idiction of WTF or ITF (boy that **** hurt)

Ah yeah sure, too big but short legs? And too slow?
I tell you something, especially in the heavyweight devision there are some guys that are fucking blocks, but they rule.
And sure there is a limitation to your speed but that is 80-90% technique and the rest is genetics and timing.

PS: I trained with coaches of the olympic team too and also of the Poomse team and others, is that an indicator for something?
Might be but in general NO, nobody cares unless you prove that you know something, what you are trying to avoid by any means.

That is the ideal for every
stand up, not only TKD...

So please, stop talking Bullshit, thank you.


you are a angry twit , if you train mostly one way you will tend to fight the same way goof ball , I started in Shotokan , I looked like a shotokan fighter doing TKD . and my technique was fine. sorry you think you know it all. People who do mostly TKD look like they do mostly TKD.
Does a major league baseball player alter his batting stance every at bat , maybe slightly.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST VIDEO THEY ARENT WEARING WTF APPROVED CHEST PROTECTOR AND HEAD GEAR .
I only bought up the coach part not to express my own talents or lack thereof but to say Ive seen world class TKD players that were blindingly fast whose footwork was sublime.

so if you dont agree with me , fine , I really could care less. :hello:

and PS the guy in the video doesnt appear to have the typical WTF type shuffling ,

and like I said this my opinion , you disagree fine ,

I am not angry, I am passionate and people who act wrong against better judgement or just talk **** when they are in no place to talk anything get to me, true.


So you looked like a shotokan fighter, since you have kept some sort of stance/ way of motion what so ever but yet your technique was right in terms of TKD? Well you got to explain that because this is like saying: "I look like I am doing it wrong though I am doing it right" ... Either you are doing it right and you will look right or you are doing it wrong then you will look wrong.
Fighting is based on body mechanics and physics, you can't change that and you can't work around that. And since you can't change that a good kick looks like a good kick. A bad kick looks wrong because it does not follow the "way" a good kick follows and by not following this way you either work against an optimized body mechanics and/or physics.

Thank you for contradicting yourself.

PS: The fact that you don't care and not willing to accept that you are "wrong" just proves why you have no saying in the matter.

I am not angry, I am passionate and people who act wrong against better judgement or just talk **** when they are in no place to talk anything get to me, true.


So you looked like a shotokan fighter, since you have kept some sort of stance/ way of motion what so ever but yet your technique was right in terms of TKD? Well you got to explain that because this is like saying: "I look like I am doing it wrong though I am doing it right" ... Either you are doing it right and you will look right or you are doing it wrong then you will look wrong.
Fighting is based on body mechanics and physics, you can't change that and you can't work around that. And since you can't change that a good kick looks like a good kick. A bad kick looks wrong because it does not follow the "way" a good kick follows and by not following this way you either work against an optimized body mechanics and/or physics.

Thank you for contradicting yourself.

PS: The fact that you don't care and not willing to accept that you are "wrong" just proves why you have no saying in the matter.

whudeva , no your not passionate you are argumentative, I never said I was a good Olympic WTF fighter , Im a good fighter , but WTF Olympic sparring wasn't my forte. I have very good technique , my poomse were good. But WTF TKD tend to be strictly axe kick/round house kickers in numerous variations and add some spinning hook kicks I tended to use my hands and fight close in , I was used to jamming . Im not knocking WTF TKD. I think they produce some world class champions but they tend to fight a very distinctive way , go check Youtube.
WTF TKD is very distinctive , Thats what im saying , do you have a problem with that.
Neither of the videos appeared to be WTF style.

So where do you have a problem with what I said
And what are you qualifications / educate me please . Im all ears.

See, you are evading and yet contradicting yourself all the time.

You say you have good technique (in TKD) and you are a good fighter but yet you are not a good TKD fighter, how does that work?
I would call my self mediocre WTF fighter at best, even more at the bottom, yet I can hold my self, not only in WTF TKD but in MT/KB, JJJ,Karate, even in Judo, sparring-training- tournaments. I am not top notch but it is more then enough to hold my self in a fight under those rule sets.

You say tkd is good but not at the top. Therefore there are people who are better fighters than the good tkd fighters, and yet you say you were good fighter but not a good tkd fighter. So you are better but yet not better... see where I am going with this?

Same for the WTF stance, people fucking adapt, simple as that, if you can't it is just a sign that you either ignorant or limited, take your pick.

Another point is: axe kick(are you talking aboliki or neryo chagi and when you are talking neryo are you talking traditional or competition, are you talking straigt or inside out/ outside in?) and roundhouse (are you talking dolyo or paldung?) in different variations and some hook kicks( simple pande, pande dolyo, timen pande dolyo?). You missed to mention front and side kicks those are used too... which then are all kick you can throw right? Or do you know any more? I don't.
So how is this limited?
(And to cut off your hand argument before you start it. I have seen people make them work under WTF rule set, if you can't isn't that a sign that you are not that good as you might think?)

I know what WTF/Olympic TKD looks like, I fought it for years so thank you, I think I am good, no youtube needed.

These are a few problems I have with what you write. You are inconsistent and contradict yourself (see above) you fail to argue your point on a logic basis.